psa: tn hcp and moving out of state

If you have a Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit and move out of state, the TN Department of Safety will cancel your HCP as soon as they receive notification that you have acquired a driver’s license from another state. 

This is not terribly well publicized online, but I called the DoS and asked them directly, and that was the answer. 

The lack of a grace period is somewhat annoying, but when coupled with North Carolina’s “you must live in this state for 30 days before applying” constraint, as well as the fact that the Wake County Sheriff’s Department told me yesterday that my Concealed Handgun Permit application would take 90 days to process (even though they only have 45 days by law… apparently sheriffs are willfully misreading § 14-415.13 (5) to indicate that they have 45 days after the receipt of the medical records, not 45 days after the receipt of the release), it is damned frustrating indeed. 

I will have to leave for the NRAAM in 41 days; something tells me I will have to find someone else to model my Crazy Holster for me. 

(In fairness, some of that is my fault.  We delayed my getting an NC DL for a couple of reasons, and then I procrastinated about taking the CCH class.  But still; permits to to exercise a Constitutionally-protected right need to go the way of the dinosaurs and fast.) 

james yeager, helping the "gun control" extremists

Considering that my posts documenting how James Yeager is a coward and how he violated the Tennessee constitution are getting an unusual amount of traffic in recent days, I thought I would take a brief moment to comment on Yeager’s most recent bout of mind-numbing stupidity wherein he stated, "If it goes one inch further, I’m going to start killing people!".

First, just like the Sandy Hook Elementary School murderer, James Yeager is not representative of the average firearm owner, nor is he representative of the average pro-rights activist*. Using those two disgusting (for differing reasons) individuals to paint all firearm owners or pro-rights activists as murderous whackjobs looking for any and all excuses to fly off the handle is nothing more than a hasty generalization logical fallacy – a specious stereotype, in other words – and should be ridiculed and discarded as such.

Second, I refuse to allow my rights to be limited simply because one person who happens to own similar pieces of machined metal as I do cannot keep his temper in check. Or, to put it another way, one nutcase losing his gos-se on an internet video is a wholly insufficient reason to limit everyone else’s rights. You and I both may not like what Yeager says, and, speaking personally, I would very much prefer if he were to crawl in a deep, dark hole and pull it in after him, but so far as I can tell, he is operating within the bounds of the right protected by the First Amendment, and damned if I will not defend that right as much as the one protected by the Second Amendment.

Third, if you have ever received any training from James Yeager in regards to firearms, deadly force, or other related topics, I would strongly recommend that you seek out additional training from other sources such as Mas Ayoob, Larry Vickers, Todd Green, Front Sight, Gunsite, and countless other sources I do not know or cannot remember at the moment (note: I have no affiliation with the places or people named and have received no training from any of them). Why? The training Yeager provided you may have been technically and functionally accurate, but do you really want the prosecution of your self-defense hearing/trial holding up the video of Yeager claiming he is going to "start killing people" as an example of the person who trained you to shoot down that poor choir boy who was only trying to collect money for the Salvation Army mugger/rapist/murder/etc.? Being able to counter with examples of significantly-more-up-standing individuals in the self-defense training community might prove useful.

Fourth, do not even get me started on the cowardice of yanking the above video, claiming he does not retract any of his statements, and then whinging about people re-uploading the original video. If he had pulled the original clip and put up some kind of apology or somesuch in its place, I might consider giving him some credit… but this kind of response screams "hand caught in the cookie jar". Poor baby.

Fifth and finally, James Yeager and his company "Tactical Response" thankfully do not appear to be qualified to provide Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit instruction/training, but Yeager has been lying about his "certifications". I particularly enjoy how his site now says "TN Department of Safety Certified Firearms Instructor (formerly)", when the TN DOS representative TPM quotes states "there is no such certification offered".

[Update] On a related note to Yeager lying about his non-existent "certification" from TN DOS, it would appear as though his handgun carry permit has been revoked by the state of Tennessee "based on a ‘material likelihood of risk of harm to the public’". I cannot say as though I agree with that reasoning being acceptable to revoke a permit, and I have to wonder why that reasoning did not come into play during Yeager’s childish "duel" challenges, but there it is. [/Update]

In closing, like I said on Twitter, I would like to take a moment and thank James Yeager for providing the "gun control" extremists all the ammunition they will need to paint all firearm owners as equally deranged, murderous, and psychotic as he is… as if we did not have enough of that going on with the Sandy Hook murderer as it was. There are a fair number of people I sincerely wish were not "on my side", but this guy is pretty much at the top at the moment…

Of course, while I say that, rumor has it that James Yeager will be on the Ed Show (whatever the hell that is) on MSNBC tonight. Frakking awesome. We could have calm, cool, collected folks like Mr. Colion Noir represent us on national television, but instead we get flaming nutbags like Yeager. Good to see yellow journalism is still alive and well…

(* – I imagine James Yeager would get along with the woefully self-destructive "threeper" community just fine , what with his above-quoted line and absolute lack of any actual action on his part, but even I would not force this over-steroided gas-bag on even that community.)

knoxville chick-fil-a wants you defenseless?

[Update] Please see updated information regarding this story here. In short, Chick-Fil-A has NOT posted itself as a “gun-free zone”.[/UPDATE]

Well, now, this is interesting.

As regular readers will remember, I went to Chick-Fil-A on the first of this month to support them and show my disdain, to put it politely, for those governmental lackeys who would tell a private corporation where it can and cannot build based off nothing more than the personal opinions of that company’s president. I was, of course, openly carrying at the time, and my firearm for the day was my full-size, all-metal Baby Eagle – basically the same model the Israeli police/military forces use(d). Also, rather hard to miss, as was apparent by the occasional glance I received, and one fellow customer positively commenting on it.

The interesting part is that I seem to recall first getting in line somewhere around 1800 and being out of the store by 1700, which means I just narrowly missed this:

Today I went to Chick-Fil-A to get some “hate chicken.” I arrived at the Knoxville, Turkey Creek location at about 5:30 and the line was almost out the door. I was able to order within 10 minutes and then began to wait. With the number of orders there, the average wait time was about 30 to 45 minutes. After about 45 minutes of waiting inside the store I was approached by an employee of some fashion (I did not ascertain the rank of the employee) and was told that he knew that carrying a gun was perfectly legal and that Chick-Fil-A did not allow that. He told me to go outside and he would bring me my food.

So I spent somewhere around 40 minutes in the store, waiting to get up to the register, and then waiting for my food. For the entire time, I was in plain view of all of the customers, and while I was waiting for my food, at least six different employees walked past me on their way to giving food to other customers or taking care of miscellaneous other details. I was carrying openly, with no real attempt made on my part to conceal the handgun (apart from resting my right elbow on it, as is often my habit for obvious reasons), and not a single employee said a thing about it or me.

However, thanks to two nameless, faceless customers apparently complaining to the management at the Knoxville Chick-Fil-A about a "man with a gun", that particular establishment will be posting "no guns allowed" signage sometime this week*.

On the one hand, this particular Chick-Fil-A would not have posted / be posting its premises if the open carrier had not lawfully, peacefully, and politely (by his accounts) exercised his Constitutionally-protected rights on their property. On the other hand, Chick-Fil-A is welcome to deny service to whomever they want for whatever reasons they want**, and put up signs indicating such. On the gripping hand, putting up those signs because all of two people complained is not only stupid as hell, it appears to run directly contrary to Chick-Fil-A’s corporate policies.

To put the situation in the context of the day, if two people had complained about homosexuals holding hands while in line, would Chick-Fil-A start denying service to all homosexuals?

The gentleman who brought this to my attention, who also happens to be the proprietor of another local business, saved me from a lot of typing in his email to the local Chick-Fil-A branch:

Hello, while I was reading the TN Gun Owners forum tonight I ran across a post by a gentleman who on August 1st was told to go outside and wait for his food simply because he was legally open carrying a firearm. As a permit holder, as is my wife, and as a long time customer of both the Turkey Creek and Kingston Outlook store, I am very disappointed to hear that people’s irrational fears were chosen over the legal ,and peaceful, actions of a customer. I have visited both of your West Knoxville stores dozens of times legally armed, even a couple while open carrying, and never got as much as a crossed look from any customer, manager, or employee. I even know for a fact that there was at least one other person who open carried at your Turkey Creek store on the same day and not only got no complaints about open carrying, actually got a complement – http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2012/08/yesterday-at-chick-fil-a.html

Therefore, I am quite surprised that this gentleman was told that because two people complained about him open carrying, the stores would be posted against legal carry. I might understand if he was going around getting in people’s faces or being irresponsible by unholstering his side arm and waving it around. However, he says he was simply standing in line ordering food when asked to go outside. Even if he was acting crazy, the actions of one person should not affect the rights of other law abiding citizens.

Considering the fact that the amount of business you received that day due to people wanting to support the 1st Amendment rights of the Chick-Fil-A CEO, I am even more surprised that you would ask a peaceful customer to leave. I would have figured that considering how you all try to treat customers that you would have a similar policy to other businesses like Wal-Mart, McDonald’s, Kroger, and even Starbucks where a person may legally carry openly or concealed according to state law and will not be asked to leave unless they are threatening other customers. I thought before you would ask someone to leave due to another customer’s complaint that you might actually see if the complaint was warranted or if someone unjustly didn’t like the way someone else looked-which in this case two people just didn’t like the fact that they had to see a firearm in a holster on someone’s hip. To people who have irrational fear of things like legally carried firearms I would suggest that you would tell them that you would investigate their complaint, but if someone is peacefully eating, then you respect that person’s right to legally carry in your store.

I also noticed that the gentleman was told that you have to consider your business first in these kinds of issues. I understand that, and as a business owner myself I can respect that. However, I am not sure if you realize how many people here have carry permits and do carry on a regular basis that you would risk losing their business over two people’s complaint. Just in the zip codes that your two west Knox stores are in, along with touching zip codes, there are over 6500 people with carry permits. Knox county alone has almost 25,000 people with carry permits and when adding Roane and Loudon counties, since many people I know who live in those two counties visit Turkey Creek, that’s almost 35,000 people. Let alone that there are over 366,000 permit holders in TN and only 97 of them had their permits revoked last year due to felony conviction or court order-almost none due to actual crime with a firearm, I would say that permit holders are some of the most law abiding people in the state.

If you don’t think permit holders don’t vote with their wallets, you are quite wrong. There are at least two online TN Firearms forums with thousands of members that have a section just for posting businesses that have posted against carry so people are aware of businesses to avoid patronizing. The people I know with carry permits are pretty passionate about avoiding businesses that don’t allow them to carry due to the amount of money and time they had to spend to prove that they were a law abiding citizen to be able to carry a firearm to protect themselves and their families. I am certainly one of those people and have stopped shopping at places like Earthfare and Joann’s because they have posted against me being able to protect myself with a powerful tool. And while it is a little inconvenience, I find that there are plenty of other options for where I can shop, and in your case, other Chick-Fil-A’s that I can eat at and would encourage all of my friends to do the same if they value their gun rights and protecting their families.

So I would encourage you to reconsider the direction you are going with posting your stores. I don’t believe it’s in your business’s best interest or your customer’s to post because by placing a no guns sign at your door, you don’t stop any criminal that cares to do harm to your customers or employees. However, you do stop law abiding citizens that will actually follow the law and either not go in, or disarm themselves. Giving into people’s fears about an inanimate, holstered object encourages people to judge others by looks and not by their character or actions when all permit holders want to do is protect themselves.

I concur with his comments in an email to me that all concealed and open carriers in the Knoxville region should contact this store; I will try to find the time later this week to swing by the store and see if they have actually posted.

And let me get this out of the way right here and now, since I feel certain it will come up in the comments: based on the information I have at-hand, the open carrier is not the one at fault in this particular situation. I do wish he had handled things a bit differently (specifically, I would not have told the Chick-Fil-A manager how to properly post his property, which the open carrier appears to have done), but he was peacefully where he had the right to be, exercising his rights in a quiet and non-obtrusive fashion, and did (again, as far as we know) absolutely nothing wrong. On the other hand, the store manager decided that the narrow-minded bigotry of a stark minority of his customers should ironically override that store’s willingness to serve all people of all types, and thus the responsibility for the choice rests solely on his shoulders. One hopes he will change his mind.

This is functionally no different than a manager telling a Christian wearing a cross necklace outside of their clothing that they have to leave the premises because two Muslims complained; would you blame the Christian in that hypothetical situation as well?

(* – I would not waste any more time with that thread than you absolutely feel necessary; Tennessee Gun Owners members did what TGO members are wont to do in these circumstances and reflexively blamed the open carrier with all of the standard invective, hatred, and borderline viciousness they are known for. That attitude is a significant part of why I have abandoned that forum over the years.

** – Within the bounds of the laws, though I, personally, find laws against corporations "discriminating" against customers to be amusing, at best.)

in which i rub it in

I should start this post by observing that Coal Creek Armory is currently being featured on Deal Chicken with a $37.50 Basic Handgun Safety Class (regularly $60), a $37.50 Women’s Handgun Essentials Class, a $100 1 Year Range Membership (normal value $200), a $182.50 Basic Handgun Safety Course Package (including the Basic Handgun Safety Class, a Handgun Carry Permit Class, and 1 Year Membership), or a $182.50 Women’s Handgun Essentials Class Package (including the Women’s Handgun Essentials Class, a Handgun Carry Permit Class, and a 1 Year Membership).  You want options?  They got options.  But, regardless, show up to the range 10 times over the course of the year, and that Membership will pay for itself, and HCP courses run $90 these days, so it is really hard to go wrong with any of those deals

Now, on to the part you really care about – yes, the aforementioned NFA toy made it home today.  Unfortunately, there are only so many ways to frame this thing in a picture that does not give it all away all at once, and I am fairly certain someone will be able to figure it out off this shot alone, but such is the nature of the beast: 

teaser1

I should have bought one of these ages ago. 

[Update]  I forgot to mention the rules – one picture per day, and I am not saying anything about it, nor answering questions, nor putting up the “good” pictures, until someone gets it right… or at least in the ballpark.  [/Update]

tn hcp holders are more law-abiding than maig members

By current accounting, the misnamed Mayors Against Illegal Guns (MAIG) claims or claimed as members at least 15 mayors who have been convicted of breaking various and sundry laws, recorded below in alphabetical order by their last names:

Gary Becker – Plead guilty to sexual assault on a child and child enticement.

Adam Bradley – Convicted of attempted assault, harassment, and criminal contempt.

John Callahan – Improper use of mayoral campaign funds for congressional campaign.

Richard Corkery – Arrested on 28 counts of possessing child pornography, awaiting trial.

David Delle Donna – Convicted of extortion and tax fraud.

Shelia Dixon – Convicted of embezzlement and plead guilty to perjury.

Beth Flansbaum-Talabisco – Charged with bribery and other corruption, awaiting trial.

Jeremiah Healy – Convicted of disorderly conduct and resisting arrest.

Gordon Jenkins – Plead guilty to trademark counterfeiting.

Kwame Kilpatrick – Plead guilty to two counts of perjury and one count of assault on an officer.

Larry Langford – Convicted on sixty felony counts including bribery, money laundering, criminal conspiracy, and mail and wire fraud.

Frank Melton – Hung jury on charges of conspiracy to violate civil rights and commission of a violent crime while in possession of a handgun. (Frank died a few days before the retrial.)

Eddie Perez – Convicted of receiving a bribe, conspiracy to fabricate evidence, accessory to the fabrication of evidence, conspiracy to commit first-degree larceny by extortion and criminal attempt to commit first-degree larceny by extortion.

Samuel Rivera – Negligently killed his brother-in-law while demonstrating his security guard sidearm (ruled accidental); confessed to fabricating evidence, framing victims, and being an accessory to murder in Puerto Rico; plead guilty to accepting bribes.

Will Wynn – Plead guilty to assault.

As of this post, MAIG claims 606 mayors have signed onto their campaign, however, it is known that the Mayors Against Illegal Guns frequently lies about its membership numbers by including mayors who have explicitly asked MAIG to remove their names from the rolls. As such, we will round down a smidge and call their membership and even 600.

Based on those numbers, we may conclude that, since its inception in 2006, the Mayors Against Illegal Guns has suffered a total "failure rate" of 2.5%.

On the other hand, Tennessee currently has 340,066 active Handgun Carry Permits. "Court Ordered / Administrative Revocations" and felony convictions resulted in 108 revocations in 2010, 292 in 2009, 263 in 2008, 262 in 2007, and 200 in 2006. Averaging those numbers gives us 225 revocations per year, which is the number we will arbitrarily use for 2011.

Based on those numbers and that assumption, we may conclude that, since 2006, Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit holders have suffered a total "failure rate" of 0.40%.

In other words, based on similar time periods, Mayors Against Illegal Guns members are 6.3 times more likely to break the law than Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit holders.

However, let us look farther afield – the Tennessee Department of Safety and Homeland Security has been issuing Handgun Carry Permits since October 1996 (before then, individual county sheriffs handled them), and between then and the end of 2010, they have issued somewhere around 393686 permits (including four years’ worth of county sheriff renewals, and all duplications, free permits (how do you score those?), and new resident permits, but not counting overall renewals, for obvious reasons). In that same time period, only 4248 permits have had to be revoked due to court orders, administrative revocations, and felony convictions. As such, over the course of 14 years and change, the handgun carry permit holders of Tennessee have only had a failure rate of around 1.08%.

On the other hand, if we take the Mayors Against Illegal Guns members’ statistics (15 convictions over 5 years) and extrapolate them over 14 years, we find that they have had a failure rate of around 7% even. Amusingly, this indicates that MAIG members are 6.5 times more likely to break the law than TN HCP holders.

Based on these numbers alone, it would appear as though the Mayors Against Illegal Guns members’ time could be much better spent on keeping each other on the ‘straight and narrow’, rather than senselessly seeking to abridge and infringe upon my Constitutionally-protected rights… but that is assuming MAIG’s end goal is actually the reduction of crime, rather than the reduction of firearm ownership.

(Note: This post is courtesy of the Instalanche I received on a previous, similar post. )

(Additional Note: Due to differences in solving the equations, it is not accurate to compare TN’s numbers vs. FL’s numbers, specifically because we are talking about different time periods (14 years and 23 years, respectively), and additionally because Tennessee’s odd HCP history complicates the numbers. )

(Final Note: I would like to thank the Tennessee Department of Safety for providing me the total numbers of permits issued and revoked over the course of the HCP program’s history, available here in *.xlsx format and below as an image.

TNHCPHistorical

)

we are winning – carry edition

I cannot say as though I know a single thing about Tactical Advantage Corp based out of Corryton, TN (except that I absolutely hate webpages that have repeating noises running in the background), but they work with Coal Creek Armory and Parafrog, so they cannot be all bad.

More to the point, by way of DealChicken (a Groupon / Living Social analog), T.A.C. Academy is offering a Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit course for all of $37.50. On the one hand, firearm training is generally one of those “you get what you pay for” experiences, but, on the other hand, the training required for your HCP is laid out by the state already, and as long as the instructor is not a complete back-birth, you should be alright. And, really, that price is pretty much unbeatable.

So if you do not yet have your Handgun Carry Permit and are serious about procuring one, see how your schedule looks for 19 & 21JAN, 16 & 18FEB, and 15 & 17MAR – if nothing else, this eight hour class will allow you to legally carry your firearm in Tennessee (and quite a few other states) should you ever decide to do so. The deal is good for another day, so while I would not say that you had to make up your mind right now, sooner would probably be better.

And, regardless, given how often handgun carry permit courses and their analogs are showing up on deal sites, it is pretty much undeniable that we are winning. 

about that time

So yesterday I got a big ol’ honkin’ package in the mail from the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, and my first thought was, "Huh, I don’t remember leaving any farms laying around in Florida after I moved out." I got back to the house, tore open the manila envelope, and was suddenly surprised at how quickly time had passed.

You see, as of this April, it will have been five years since I got my first "concealed weapon" license, and the State of Florida wanted to let me know that it was time to renew (and provide me all of the necessary paperwork to do so). How thoughtful of them (and I mean that in an honest, non-snarky kind of way).

And while all of this goes without saying, I see no reason not to reiterate it – in the past five years…

… I have never shot anyone over a parking space.

… I have never shot anyone over an incorrect order at a restaurant.

… I have never shot anyone for poor customer service.

… I have never shot anyone for looking at me the wrong way.

… I have never shot anyone, period.

… I have never even implied I was going to shoot someone.

… I have never brandished my firearm.

… I have never threatened anyone with my firearm.

And the statistics clearly show I am not alone.

Why, it is almost like the "gun control" extremists have no idea what they are talking about when they all-but directly accuse handgun carry permit holders / concealed weapon or firearm license holders / their counterparts of being tantamount to murderers! Big surprise there.

Now I just have to find the time to take off from work to get the fingerprint done by a law enforcement agency (a stupid requirement, but permits in general are stupid) and have my picture taken. Small price to pay, I suppose, for a permit that ranks amongst the most-accepted in the country.