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"walls of the city" logo conceptualized by Oleg Volk and executed by Linoge. Logo is © "walls of the city".

how… disappointing

As we pro-rights activists are fond of frequently reminding the "gun control" fetishists out there, the Bill of Rights – and, for that matter, the Constitution as a whole – is not a Chinese take-out menu; you do not get to simply pick and choose which Amendments you will respect and observe and which Amendments you will trample all over at the earliest possible opportunity.

Imagine my surprise and disappointment, then, at seeing a supposed fellow pro-rights activists gleefully tossing the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and Eighth Amendments into a bonfire simply because they suited his particular… well, bloodthirstiness, to be perfectly frank.

Make no mistake; iff the alleged LAPD-cop-killer did all of the things he supposedly did, I would not shed a tear about his body being unceremoniously dumped in an unmarked grave… after the state had proved its case, proven him guilty, and abided by the state and federal laws, including the Constitution itself, regarding the prosecution of a suspect. But none of that happened.

Instead, the LAPD had absolutely no intention of allowing the shooter to surrender, and [updated] the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department [/updated] engaged in tactics that are not even approved for use by our military in Afghanistan. Think about that for a second. In every way but its actual name, we are engaged in a war in Afghanistan, against some people who are known for using some particularly underhanded, despicable tactics, even allowing for the flexibility imparted by exigent circumstances. But even in that combat zone, the first, second, or even third response to a person holed up in a building laying fire on your troops is not to torch the building, especially when you knew there were innocents/hostages in the building not too long ago.

And yet some of the most ardent defenders of the Second Amendment have absolutely no problem with our police forces treating their fellow American citizens worse than our military forces treat their armed-and-dangerous foreign combatants.

I have noticed that my RSS reader has been getting a bit unwieldy of late… maybe now is a good time to exercise some judicious pruning.

22 comments to how… disappointing

  • Rob Reed

    I disagree with Bob Owens on this one as I am deeply troubled by the cops deliberately setting fire to an occupied structure to kill a fugitive. This smacks of WACO and, years before that, when the Philadelphia PD burned down a whole city block after dropping a bomb on a home to end a siege.

    As far as Bob Owens though, I don’t require that everyone I read agree with me 100% on every issue. If that were the case I’d ultimately only ever be able to read my own blog as it seems I disagree with everyone on something eventually. I’ll give people room to think differently than me, but if evidence mounts that are world views are incompatable, that’s when I’ll stop using them as a source of info. One case is not enough though.

  • It may be something of a stretch – but a lesser one these days – but if the LAPD police will do this to one of their own, even a former officer, how does everyone think they will treat us “mere citizens”? After all, before he got holed up in the cabin and started shooting cops in front of scores of other cops, the evidence against the shooter was… mighty thin, to say the least, and yet the immediate response is to burn him down where he hid? Hell with that.

    As for Bob, not only encouraging the illegitimate murder – and that is what this was, let us not beat around the bush – of a suspect in a criminal investigation, but saying it was “the right thing to do” is unquestionably sufficient for pull up the anchor. I have no problems with differences of opinion, but endorsing police-state-style murder? No, thanks.

  • Some people lose all rationality when “their” gang is attacked.

  • Ted N

    Usually Bob is pretty legit, but that one is…bleh. And he posted a rebuttal. fun.

    Glad to be back, briefly.

  • I was hoping this guy wouldn’t be found for months, at least until we found out what the LAPD was covering up. But unlike on film, where the good guy brings down the house of cards against all odds, we will never know what was going on (if anything).
    But, i look forward to getting a job piloting a DMV drone one day and going after tardy ticket payers.

  • Hey, that’s just breakage.

    You know, the same kind of breakage we got when those old ladies delivering papers were ambushed by the police.

    If they had been killed, well, that would have just been their own damn fault for daring to be on the street in a vehicle that had the same number of wheels as what Dorner was driving. If you don’t want to get shot by cops on a righteous mission of vengeance, don’t leave the house.

    In fact, since you might get your door kicked in and your dog shot by the SWAT team on a no-knock raid to the wrong address, you should probably just lie face down on your floor now and lace your fingers behind your head now.

    It’s just basic human decency, after all.

    You bastard.

  • @ AlanR: I just never pegged Bob as a supplicant at the Altar of Police States.

    @ Ted N: Not sure I needed to know about that, but I went ahead and left a comment anywise:

    Good of you to confirm your belief that Constitutionally-protected rights – like that whacky thing called “due process” – can go out the window when you feel it is appropriate to do so.

    I do not waste my time reading folks with similar beliefs regarding the Second Amendment; I see no reason to continue wasting my time here.

    And, as far as I am concerned, that is that.

    @ dave w: I confess to not having bothered doing a great deal of digging into the story quite yet – I figured it was either going to end like this, or with him disappearing into Mexico – but from everything I read, the initial reports and accusations against him were tenuous at best. We know that someone killed those three people, but the initial evidence, from what I saw, basically boiled down to the LAPD saying he did it.

    Forgive me, but they are not the most… reliable… of sources.

    To be certain, his opening fire on the cops once they had him cornered is somewhat incontrovertible, but now that he is dead… well, it simplifies the judicial case, does it not?

    @ wfgodbold: I would award you the internets, sir, if I had any to give.

  • Ted N

    First comment I’ve been able to post here in 6 months, and I’m stirring up trouble with it. My coal black heart is just a little bit warmer, knowing that. :D

  • MAJMike

    Well, thank goodiness the trained professionals are the only ones in our society to be trusted with access to firearms.

    I don’t think that SGT Friday would be too proud of his comrades at this point.

  • Tom

    I can understand 100% WHY the LAPD did what it did. This guy was hitting their own. They had to get their revenge. Of course, a Dad in Houston is now facing murder charges after killing the drunken 20 y.o. that crushed his two young sons as they were pushing the Dad’s truck home. Same motivation. Different social contracts. Different outcomes. You can bet that the LAPD cops that shot up the two trucks last week will get off with nary a warning. The taxpayers of LA will pay the victims, and everything goes back to normal.

    But this episode illustrates the power that the armed agents of the state have, and how that power can be summoned by the rich and connected. How many double murders are there that mobilize a major city’s police force? Besides this one, I can’t think of any. Hell, read the story today about how the cops on the same train car as Joe Lozito had no obligation to help him when he subdued the guy who went on the stabbing spree two years ago. Why? Lozito’s a nobody. Now, we all know that the cops are under no obligation to help us specifically. But they’re still shmucks.

    And that’s why Americans NEED AR 15s, high cap mags, and whatever new weapon they create 100 years from now. Cops and politicians are like the rest of us — we each look out for our own interests. That’s fine. But when the politicians begin to use the power entrusted to them against us, and summon the power of the police forces to make sure the interests of the politicians prevail, they need to understand viscerally that you can only push an armed citizen so far. No, it isn’t about a militia of 2nd Amendment supporters marching to NY to take on Gov. Cuomo. It’s about the stage where the public knows something needs to change, but the cops are really cracking down to make sure it doesn’t. Think of civil rights in the 1960s. Cops busting black skulls was just part of a day’s work. America knew it was wrong. And it came to a head when the Black Panthers broke out the rifles and were killing people in the streets of Oakland. It changed from “civil rights someday” to “civil rights RIGHT NOW”.

  • We all knew deep down the moment those two innocent women were shot this would turn out like Waco, perhaps even Ruby Ridge. They displayed their intent by FIRING ON A “SIMILAR” VEHICLE without following the basic rules of engagement. Verify your target. They saw the vehicle. The shot two women who obviously looked like the suspect. The two women were obviously a threat to the officers. Clean shoot! Whooooo Hoooooo for guts, glory, and Gestapo! If anyone didn’t get the sarcasm I apologize.

    As for Bob… He made the same mistake that all liberals make. He made a decision based on emotion without allowing himself to be confused with all the facts, regardless of whether or not all the facts were in.

    Disavowed With Honor

  • Volfram

    So the LAPD has now committed aggrivated arson.

    You know what would make this incredibly poetic?(sad, terrible, but poetic) If the house was occupied by innocents who burned to death in the fire. Bonus points if not a single occupant was the guy they were actually going for.

    Rules of engagement exist for a reason. Every single LAPD officer involved in this arson incident should be fired from the Force and locked up for their actions, including arson, murder, and endangerment of innocents(and at least two counts assault on what were CLEARLY innocents).

    Los Angeles is officially an anarchist state.

  • [...] Some people feel the cops were justified in their actions. Others do not feel the same. [...]

  • Erradin

    Honestly after they declared him a “domestic terrorist” I was expecting the house to get blown up in a drone strike.

  • Rob Crawford

    “I was hoping this guy wouldn’t be found for months, at least until we found out what the LAPD was covering up.”

    Dorner had FOUR YEARS to prove his firing was unjust. He had hearings; he was represented by a lawyer. All this in the post-Rampart, post-OJ world of LAPD witch hunts.

    Before he was fired, he couldn’t prove his accusations. Witnesses refuted his claims — and unless you think the brotherhood of corrupt police includes the employees of DoubleTree Hotels, it wasn’t a case of police protecting their own.

    His accusations didn’t stand up — HE WAS FALSELY ACCUSING OTHER PEOPLE. So he got fired. He filed a grievance; apparently bearing false witness shouldn’t be grounds for firing a cop in his world. HE LOST.

    So he shot his lawyer’s daughter.

    Folks, Dorner was the stereotypical “bad cop”. He was just a “bad cop” more focused on his superiority over other cops than over the general population. He lied in court; he assaulted people because he didn’t like their smart mouths; when he didn’t get what he wanted he took it out on the families of those who “wronged” him.

    Yes, the behavior of the LAPD should be investigated — and they sure as hell need to retrain on their use of force and fire discipline. But giving this guy ANY credit is just disgusting.

  • Tam

    The San Bernadino County Sheriff’s Department would probably be shocked if they found out that the LAPD had burned Dornan.

    For god’s sake, people, this is the fundamental lacxk of research that the NYT gets mocked for.

  • @ Ted N: Was the interlude due to technical difficulties on the site, or due to being indisposed in some other fashion?

    @ MAJMike: The irony is how that argument gets tossed on its head two separate ways now. On the one hand, the LA shooter was a former police officer, and, at one point, the department gave him a firearm and official permission to use it. On the other hand, the LAPD shot innocents and random-assed pickup trucks just because they happened to maybe, if you squint your eyes and turn your head sideways, possibly resemble the target vehicle.

    Yeah, only arming the police seems like such a great idea… *sigh*

    @ Tom: That is another thing that has bothered me about this entire idiotic fiasco as well. For the sake of hypothetical situations, assume you saw someone gun down your wife right in front of you. Assume you pursued this person, and, possibly with the help of friends, were able to corner him in a small wooden structure. Assume you set fire to it, and assume the person died in that fire.

    Given that hypothetical situation, you would be up on murder charges about as fast as it would take the police/fire departments to arrive. But the police in this particular case? Oh, they might get some mandatory counseling, and maybe some administrative leave (about the worst I expect out of the pickup-truck-shooters), but that will be it.

    The police are not the judge, jury, and executioners of the countryside. In fact, I seem to recall police acting in that fashion being a primary motivating factor behind the foundation of this present country, even to the point where we specifically prohibited all police in behaving in that fashion in our very founding document.

    So much for that.

    But, yes, we are very much on our own, and, yes, occasionally the situation does necessitate, if not outright require, average citizens taking up arms against their government – Athens, TN is right down the road from me and stands today as a shining example of that concept. Of course, so does the notion that the police would rather torch a building with a suspect and who-knows-who-else inside, rather than do their jobs.

    @ Disavowed With Honor: Honestly, I was figuring on a “mysterious explosion”, and was hoping – if that is the right word – for a legitimate suicide cop, wherein he rushed the police officers in question and they shot him down in self-defense. Burning the building he was in is not self-defense, but, given the mentality of the police engaged in the manhunt, it was probably unavoidable.

    As for Bob, his entire argument boiled down to appeals to emotion. “Think of the cops. Think of the cops’ families. Do you really want those cops to get hurt?” Bullshit. They not only knew the game when they raised their right hands, but, more importantly, think of the families of the next “suspect” who gets burned down where he stands… and who might have been innocent. It would not be the first time the police engaged in a massive manhunt for the wrong person, but if we start encouraging them to simplify the legal system by “dealing with” suspects on their own… well, damn, who is next?

    Of course, amusingly, his if it saves just one (cop) life is the same exact specious argument used by those working to undermine the Second Amendment, as is his belief that this apparently newfound power of the police forces will not be abused/misused when convenient for them…

    @ Volfram: And that is the aspect of all of this that simultaneously terrifies and outrages me – the LA shooter had taken hostages before, in that very cabin, in fact, and yet the police made absolutely no attempts to ensure he was the only one in the structure before burning it to the ground.

    What. The. Fuck.

    For all they knew, he could have had a kid tied up in the basement (if applicable) and they just roasted him alive as well. Which, after all, is one of the primary reasons the military does not allow our soldiers to light buildings on fire willy-nilly, even if they are under fire from those structures.

    I completely agree that all of the officers, from whatever precincts / departments, should be up on charges regarding their actions… but we both know that will never happen.

    @ Erradin: You certainly were not the only one with that suspicion.

    @ Rob Crawford: I cannot speak for the commenters here, but I do not really care what his allegations or accusations were. I do care that the LAPD felt sufficiently… motivated… to silence this individual that they literally opened fire on a truck that bore absolutely no resemblance to the one the nutjob was driving with passengers who bore absolutely no resemblance to the nutjob, and I likewise do care that the SBSD felt it necessary to resolve the situation RIGHT NOW to the point of immolating their only suspect. Neither of those events smell particularly like a police / sheriff’s department doing their jobs in a particularly open, lawful fashion to me.

    @ Tam: As well they should be, given that they are a multi-million dollar corporation employing thousands of people all for the purpose of reporting the news. I cannot speak to the commenters here, but as for me, I am a staff of one and a budget of zero, and, worse, I am human and prone to error. The error in my original post has been corrected, also my first comment.

    Oh, and speaking of, it is spelled “Bernardino”.

  • Tam

    Oh, and speaking of, it is spelled “Bernardino”.

    Yeah, and “lack”, too. I’m sorry, I only have a staff of one, and she only has ten fingers to type with while talking to someone else on Skype. :p

  • Funny how that happens, idn’t it? :)

  • Ted N

    Half and half, I suppose you could say. I’m stationed at MFO Egypt(only 5 months left, whoo hoo!) and the Israeli/Egyptian IP addresses are not liked by your host/server…mumble mumble science word… all I can get is an error page. Funny thing is, my RSS reader can get your posts just fine, so at least I can keep up. Missed reading/adding comments though. On R&R right now(Vegas is pretty cool, but I gotta get away from the crowds and blinky lights sometimes).

  • Ah, yeah, there is scant little I can do about countries firewalling my site. I guess I should be honored the Egyptians do not like me.

    If you use Google Reader, the Google servers are actually the ones requesting the information from mine, and then displaying it to you from their servers, so that makes sense.

    Good to have you back, if only for a time!