I am not going to directly comment on this situation until much later, after I have had time to calm down and fully collect my thoughts, but I figured these quotes would put you all in the right frame of mind.
United States Constitution, Article 1, Section 9, Clause 2:
The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.
45th Congress, Second Session, Chapter 263, Section 15 of the Acts thereof:
From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress; and no money appropriated by this act shall be used to pay any of the expenses incurred in the employment of any troops in violation of this section and any person wilfully (sic) violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or imprisonment not exceeding two years or by both such fine and imprisonment.
Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
The Secretary of Defense shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to ensure that any activity (including the provision of any equipment or facility or the assignment or detail of any personnel) under this chapter does not include or permit direct participation by a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.
Tam:
Remember: Voting for John McCain is just more of George Bush’s war on the Constitution, with its indefinite detentions of anybody the government suspects of terrorism…
How’s that Hope & Change workin’ out?
In short, this defense bill not only decimates the due process of law and habeas corpus for anyone perceived to be an enemy of the United States, but it radically expands the definition of who may be considered the legitimate target of military action. If signed into law by President Obama, this bill will not only ensure that we remain in a perpetual state of war — with this being a war against the American people — but it will also institute de facto martial law in the United States. Although the 1878 Posse Comitatus Act placed strong restrictions on how and when the U.S. military may be used on American soil, the language of this bill supersedes Posse Comitatus, empowering the president to unilaterally impose martial law at any time of his choosing. This legislation signals the end of the rule of law in America.
There’s a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.
President Obama has now declared that he will sign the NDAA into law — a bill which authorizes the indefinite detention of anyone suspected of being a terrorist. What’s the definition of "terrorist"? Why, it’s anyone who has guns and ammunition, or has more than 7 days of food and water in their home, or who is missing fingers:
So when this passes, you can say goodbye to the 4th Amendment, and probably the 5th, 6th and 8th as well.
Fascism is here ladies and gentlemen. Our “representatives” are voting on declaring our nation a battlefield, which will allow military personell to detain anybody without so much as charges being declared. The mere fact that senators of this country are even entertaining this idea demonstrates how far we’ve fallen from the original ideas of liberty this country was founded on.
Me:
I always thought it’d be interesting to watch a civilization collapse first-hand. Now that I am, I’m not so sure. #ndaa #sopa #fail
And on a related note, given the "bipartisan support" for the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012, I continue to see no difference at all between "Republicans" and "Democrats".
I really do not know what else to say… Once upon a time, I took an oath to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic", and now, in the process of holding the funding for the military I served hostage, our Congress is undermining that oath, our Constitution, and our very nation. What the hell is there to say to that?
What the hell is there to say to that?
Dismantle Congress.
Also: the link in my name only leads back to this post. Recursion much?
Don’t worry, as soon as someone gets picked off the street and secretly held in secret somewhere without access to due process, we’ll finally have a test case that can withstand the vigorous vetting needed to get a defendant with “standing”.
Once upon a time, I also took an oath to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic”… As a member of the group that our government has labelled a “radical fringe” group (retirees), I don’t recall that we ever unswore on our way out. Oath-bound is oath-bound — it doesn’t stop with the paycheck. It’s a nit in today’s world, I know, but it is at the root of a person’s character. It would appear to have slipped from John McCain’s mind. Amazingly, the President (the Commander in Chief) has a much shorter oath, but even it states “will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” It’s a pretty short statement of purpose, but our good president seems to have some difficulty fulfilling his purpose.
What do you say to that? Prepare.
I’ve ranted before about how all it ever seems to take for government people to get let off the hook is to claim “oh, we didn’t mean that, we mean this,” and everything’s hunky dory, no one gets in trouble. See Holder in Fast and Furious for details.
This is especially disturbing because now they’ve given themselves cart blanche to arrest *absolutely anyone* and they’ll excuse their behavior with “well, he’s a terrorist,” and *everyone* will cross their hands and nod their heads and say “Yup, a terrorist,” and that’s the END OF THE STORY! Anyone who’s not infuriated by this collection of assholery is mentally lacking.
What pisses me off even worse is that *no one will give a damn*! No one! All those jack-f*king-idiot friends of mine in CA will go “That’s terrible! Now back to gays and the climate!” Too many echoing skull morons will be too tied up in their social engineering to realize their most basic of freedoms has been raped like a Belgium hooker.
Sorry, rage is high.
Only one thing to say.
Resist.
Thanks Linoge, for being one of the two people in my blogfeed (of about 60) to apparently get pissed about this. It strikes me as terrible that not every person in the RKBA/2A community isn’t shouting this from the rooftops. What the hell happened man?
@ Erin Palette: You could break the intertubes like that if you were not careful…
Anywise, on a more serious note, unfortunately, while I completely understand the sentiment that drives your suggestion, I can only offer the response I offer to all suggestions like it – the government is not America’s problem. The government, ostensibly, has never been America’s problem. And I do not know of a good way to vote somewhere around 60% of the population off the island…
@ Standard Mischief: I assume that was sarcasm?
@ Grey Havens Nightwatch: Ostensibly, everyone who signs or votes for this bill should be tried under 18 USC 242 for depriviation of Constitutionally-protected rights under the color of law. That they are not means the diminishing value of a person’s word is only the tip of the “complete failure of the rule of law” iceberg currently cruising into our country’s hull.
@ Terriligunn: Working on it.
@ the dude: And that, right there, is why the government is not America’s problem – I could not have said it better myself
.
@ Rauðbjorn: Honestly, I think it might be something of a problem with being inured to conspiracy theories that sound like this over the past few decadaes… Every slight ratcheting up of governmental power of we, the people, is greeted with the outliers who claim this will result in political dissenters being boxed up and shipped to “reeducation camps” or whatnot else, so when the actual dam does start to break, people are not sure if it is just another whackpot theory or the real thing.
So far as I can tell, and so far as some duly-elected representatives seem to believe (those few who voted and spoke up against it), this is actually the real thing, and, to be fair, they are probably coming to terms with what that menas.
I know I am.
The Conservative voters are constantly bemoaning that there isn’t anyone coming forward to run as a CONSERVATIVE, and to be honest, if a real conservative stepped up, he would probably be elected overwhelmingly.
I nominate Bill Whittle.
[...] Go.Read.Think. [...]
Where is the guardians of the faith- MSM. Don’t they realize that if they mouth off against the government they will be our cellmates? They would be prayin’ for Bubba about that time.
I think the reason many haven’t gone all up in arms is that they are resigned to it. It’s not like codifying it in law changes what has been functionally happening for the past several years.
Then the republic well and truely is doomed, Bluesun. I find it tragically hilarious that more people are incensed over SOPA/PIPA than over NDAA. I think we may finally have gotten the government we deserve.
Yeah, but on the other hand SOPA has been the first thing that has ever gotten my brother, for instance, angered at politicians and their idiot ways, and I imagine it’s the same for many computer geeks around the country.
Bread and circuses. Sure the defeat/repeal of SOPA is important (if for no other reason than to pass on to the polis that not only are they stupid, but that censorship is bad), but ultimately it’s just bread and circuses. NDAA OTOH is something a tad more important. Just a skosh. You know.
I guess I’m just glad that some people may realize that there is more to care about in life than what is going on in Skyrim or whatever. Perhaps they will see this and care about even more.
Of course it’s probably already too late for that.
Truth.
@ Linoge:
I don’t mean in my reply, I mean where YOU linked me. It leads back to this post. Fix please?
@ Dragon: Something tells me he or Thomas Sowell would take the conservative side of the country by storm… unfortunately, something else tells me they are too smart to run.
@ chris: Useful idiots have a built-in “feature” of never being able to see their own doom, even when it is laid out plainly before them.
@ bluesun: I certainly do not know how much “arresting American citizens by military force within the bounds of the United States and indefinitely detaining without charges” there has been going on recently…
@ Rauðbjorn: To be fair, I see both of those proposed laws as being the opposite side of the same coin – the difference is that the nerds and geeks and techno-whatsits can convince themselves that the NDAA would never be applied to them, while the SOPA presents a clear and present danger.
@ Erin Palette: Whoops, sorry, misunderstood! I actually neglected to put any link there at all, so WP apparently decided that self-referentiality was the way to go. Should be fixed now.
I don’t know, heard a few times over the past couple years about extraordinary rendition, which isn’t quite the same thing, but close enough in spirit, I’d say.
And then, what’s the difference between arresting by military force and arresting by paramilitary (law “enforcement”) force when it comes to this sort of thing? The latter just desensitizes everyone to it so the former is easier to justify later. Certainly heard of enough complete jackbooted thuggery among the police lately.
Not to split hairs, but how many of those extraordinary renditions were executed on American citizens? It is a fine distinction, but one that has largely not been crossed until recently, and certainly has not been codified within our laws until now.
On the flip side, while the increasing militarization of the police is unquestionably disturbing on all levels, they are still not the military – they are not under the command of the President, they are not bound by the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and the distinction remained. The increasing number of SWAT-raids definitely does serve to desensitize the populace, but there is still a difference between jackbooted thugs, and jackbooted military thugs.
Not trying to invoke Godwin’s Law here, but isn’t that kind of like trying to make a distinction between the SS and the SD? Does it really matter whether the guy kidnapping you is wearing blue or green?
Functionally, there may not be a lot of difference… but as the first volley of quotes in the original post shows, the law, the Constitution, and public opinion has always viewed “military” and “police” as being separate, distinct, and bound by different rules. Hell, if nothing else, this kind of gos-se lead to the founding of this country to begin with… not that I expect our apathetic excuse of a populace to largely care in this case.
True, on both counts. I just have to wonder if apathy will win out over self-interest.
Time will tell, but, offhand, I am going with “yes”.
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