Alternative title – "it is all fun and games until someone’s head gets bashed in".
Revolvers are classy as all get-out, and I love the hell out of carrying my 686 SSR (especially in its new leather, which I need to photograph and review here sometime soon), but the sad truth is that six in the cylinder and six more in a speedloader would do me scant little good against something like this:
Witnesses tell Newsradio 620 WTMJ and TODAY’S TMJ4 of a mob of young people attacking innocent fair-goers at the end of the opening night of State Fair, with some callers claiming a racially-charged scene.
Milwaukee Police confirmed there were assaults outside the fair.
Witnesses’ accounts claim everything from dozens to hundreds of young black people beating white people as they left State Fair Thursday night.
Authorities have not given official estimates of the number of people involved in the attacks.
"It looked like they were just going after white guys, white people," said Norb Roffers of Wind Lake in an interview with Newsradio 620 WTMJ. He left the State Fair Entrance near the corner of South 84th Street and West Schlinger Avenue in West Allis.
"They were attacking everybody for no reason whatsoever."
"It was 100% racial," claimed Eric, an Iraq war veteran from St. Francis who says young people beat on his car.
12 rounds, no matter how powerful .357 Magnums might be, against a crowd of hundreds is not going to do much, and will likely only serve to piss the mob off. Hell, even my PPS with one in the tube, seven more in the box, and eight on my hip is not going to be all that much better. And, yes, I do thoroughly believe that a dozens/hundreds-sized mob is more than sufficient cause for deadly force should they be threatening myself or my family – that crowd met all three sides of the deadly force triangle (opportunity, intent, and capability), and if they endangered me or mine, I would take steps to defend us. Why? Because this can kill a person:
"I saw them grab this white kid who was probably 14 or 15 years old. They just flung him into the road. They just jumped on him and started beating him. They were kicking him. He was on the ground. A girl picked up a construction sign and pushed it over on top of him. They were just running by and kicking him in the face."
What would that defense consist of? In short, "Get the [expletive deleted] out of the way." My family, whoever else I was responsible for at the time, and I would find the least-crowded path out of the mob, and head that direction as expeditiously and as quietly as possible; if there were a vehicle nearby we could make use of, we definitely would. My firearm, whatever it would be, would be out but tucked up against my body to be a little more stealthy and a lot harder to grab, and should anyone present a plausible threat to my group, I would take whatever steps were necessary to prevent my group from slowing down, much less stopping. Once clear of the mob, and once we had attention to spare, we would get somewhere out of the crowd’s line of site and alert the authorities.
Of course, that is an ideal plan, and no plan ever survives its first encounter with the enemy.
Not to make light of a remarkably frightening and dangerous scenario, though, but this is exactly the kind of thing that gaming out the "zombie apocalypse" is actually useful for – a massive, on-foot, mostly-unarmed crowd of people who are probably stronger than you and definitely more motivated, where one may not be that big of a problem, but a few would definitely bring you down. Ok, maybe this crowd does not have any particular taste for brains, but they could kill you all the same, and probably care about as much as the hypothetical zombies would.
Conversely, if this really were the zombopocalypse, my vehicle would be up-armored and stocked with all manner of magazine-fed rifles, which are significantly better tools for dealing with a violent crowd than any handgun, so maybe the mental gaming is only so useful…
So what would you do if faced with a situation like this? One thing is for certain, anti-rights cultists would leave us either defenseless (by banning firearms or the lawful carrying thereof) or ineffective (by limiting access to normal-capacity magazines), and as we can clearly see, neither of those predicaments would lead to anything good in these kinds of circumstances.
Mayhap it is time (once I get everything else sorted out, that is) to start procuring some normal-capacity magazines for my Baby Eagle and talking to some folks about a piece of leather for it… or perhaps it is time for me to finally bite the proverbial bullet and invest in a plastic-fantastic pistol. Something to think on…
(Likewise, in addition to this incident being a perfect illustration of the use and value of “high”-capacity magazines, it also perfectly shows the lie in the specious notion put forward by a supposed pro-rights activist that only “law-abiding citizens of color living in high crime neighborhoods” need self-defense training regarding multiple attackers. Remember – if a theory is false once, it is false, period.)
(Courtesy of Say Uncle.)
Do we carry a revolver for self defense in a “most firearm self defense involves only 2.1 shots” mugging situation, or a large capacity wonder-9 with reloads for a large-capacity mob? I which case, it should be asked, how would you go about concealing a rifle?
What situation is more likely? Is the mob going to become more likely?
I hate statistics.
In addition to the basic statistics of the problem, you also have to factor in the cost-benefit analysis. Dimensionally, the plastic-fantastic is smaller than the SSR in almost every way, and mass-wise it is likewise lighter (empty, but it is enough lighter empty that that probably holds true when full as well). Concealing/carrying it will be no more difficult than the SSR, and likely easier given the larger preponderance of holsters.
As for potential situations, none of the above are “likely”, but you are right – the question is which is more likely. Truth be told, I have no idea, but the normal-capacity pisto has the advantage of being able to easily handle both situations, while the wheelgun… well, it would make a handy club for aobut five seconds
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Psh, you and your silly guns. The obvious answer to this scenario is a sword. Didn’t you know they don’t run out of ammo?
I’d probably do the same thing you suggested, unass AO as quickly and discretely as possible. Hopefully the people along my departure corridor would be the ones unwilling to serve as bullet sponges so the greater mob could take me down.
About the most ammo I ever carry is 25 rounds. That’s a 1911 with two reloads or one of my plastic things with one reload (USP 45 lately). I often carry just 17 rounds of 45 ACP, a 1911 with a single spare mag, especially if I’m concealing. I don’t see carrying much more no matter what the platform, and if I had to kill my way out of a mob I don’t think a half box of ammo would do it. Hopefully the threat of force would do the job.
I am reminded of a western…
Lynch Mob Leader: Sheriff only has 6 bullets in that gun. There are 12 of us. He can’t take all of us.
Sheriff: Yeah, but which 6 out of you 12 are gonna get it?
The thought is, though I wouldn’t count on it, if the unfortunate were to happen and you had to use your firearm the vast majority of the mob would probably bolt realizing they are individually out numbered by superior firepower. I think that would buy you a little time, but not stop the overall attack.
@ weambulance: The good news is that compared to the actual firearm, carrying reloads is neither that cumbersome nor that complicated, especially if you are as big a fan of pockets as I am.
The bad news is that not many people carry beyond the one, if even that.
“Judicious application” would definitely be the name of the game, as well as staying ahead of whatever disturbance you create, but damned if either of those are going to b easy…
@ Tac: The problem is that while that probably holds true when half of the crowd could fall to your firearm, I am not sure it continues to hold when we are talking single-digit percentages. Sure, no one wants to be shot, but with a mob that big, the people right next to you do not always have a choice on where they are going. Couple that wiht the dangers of mob mentality, and….
I carry all my reloads on my belt, and there’s only so much real estate there. I’ve been known to carry three spares, and it’s fine with single stack 1911 mags, but it’s extremely uncomfortable to sit in my car with several double stack mags around my belt jabbing into me. Bucket seats are awesome until you add a few inch-thick chunks of plastic and metal between your seat and kidney.
Pocket carry isn’t really an option since I exclusively wear Carhartts–I’ve destroyed every other brand of pants I’ve tried in short order–and every pocket is already assigned to one task or another. I am seriously considering adding a pocket to the left thigh specifically to carry my Kahr P9 on my motorcycle though.
I may start carrying two double stack reloads, since I’m changing my winter carry setup from 1911 + Surefire G2 in a belt carrier to a USP with a mounted weaponlight in a belt holster. I’ll still have a standalone flashlight (for obvious reasons) but I want something very small, LED, and with better battery life since I don’t need “melts eyeballs” output, that I can comfortably carry in my “keys and sundries” pocket. I’m not sure what that will be yet, but I’ll figure it out by the time the 20 hour nights get going.
If you ever do decide to pick up a plastic gun, shoot me an e-mail. I have an excellent deal for you to consider.
Almost all problems I am likely to encounter that can be solved with any carry gun can be solved with a J frame or a single stack–If I need more ammo than that, chances are I will need more time than is available. If shooting 2 or 3 people doesn’t make the rest reconsider, shooting 6 or 8 isn’t likely to make a difference.
In that situation I’d rather have buddy with a J frame than a belt full of 17 round magazines–2 people with guns are less likely to have to shoot someone than one person with a gun.
Completely true. Being alone (or the only one in your group armed anyway), on the move through hostiles, even with a long gun is a very bad place to be. All the ammo in the world doesn’t help if someone clocks you from behind with a 2×4.
@ weambulance: I have had good luck with both Eddie Bauer and 5.11 pants, and so I have positively obscene numbers of pockets available to stuff whatever I want into them… and there is always the option that you can get/make some kind of pocket organizer for your flashlight/mag, etc.
For flashlights, I have been impressed with the single-celled CR123 units, especially from Nitecore
and NovaTac
– damned near melt-your-eyes capable, but still small enough to not really be noticeable. Battery life is… well, they are high-output CR123s, but most of their models have varying settings, so you can throttle it.
And thanks, I will keep that in mind
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@ Sevesteen: No, shooting 6 or 8 may not make a difference, but shooting 12 or 15? Or, conversely, if the people you are shooting do not go down with just one shot? I agree that having more guns available would be better indeed, but I am not convinced that having more ammunition in general is not an improvement at all.