Why are gun owners such lousy negotiatiors? The appropriate response to, “I am willing to sell X for $Y, OBO,” is not to write back and ask, “So, what is your bottom-dollar price?”
Does the term “counteroffer” mean nothing to people?
What I used to do when placing classifieds that state $X OBO, is when someone asks what the bottom line price is, I *add* 25% to $X.
Then when the response is *Huh? I asked what your bottom line is!* I respond with *My bottom line is $X + 25%….but I’m willing to entertain a competitive offer*…
Usually stops right there, and they leave me alone.
Negotiation is an art, and the populace of the age in which we live is largely artless, alas. Tacky, tacky. It’s sad when the person who has a genuine interest in an article they, and don’t have the sense to realize when they are insulting the seller of same.
@ ZerCool: Yeah, but giving them your lowest price generally means that is all you are going to get – they are, in effect, asking you to negotiate against yourself, which is a silly, and borderline insulting, thing indeed.
@ Robb Allen: I respond ot them just to point and laugh, but, aside from that, yeah… those people are idiots.
@ Midwest Chick: Heh, hell, if they would just pay me what I was asking, I would be a lot happier and take them up on it immediately… but this is at the opposite end of the spectrum, and it is just stupid. A lot of it has to do with Americans not having a culture that values haggling a whole lot, and a lot of it probably has to do with folks trying to save all they can, but, really? *sigh*
@ Dragon: Ooh. I might just have to steal that from you .
@ phlegmfatale: Still, I have to assume these people have purchased cars in the past, or gone to flea markets, or something similar like that… And, by the same token, if I wanted to only get my bare minimum price, why would I not just go ahead and post that? “Artless” indeed, and thoughtless to boot.
Not at all…OBO means *or Best Offer*…and in days gone by, between men of Ettiquette, it would have been insulting to:
A) ask what the lowest possible price (ie: Bottom Line) is for the item being sold…
and
B) an insult to offer a price any more than 12% – 15% less than the asking price.
This is why Purchasing Agents (I works as a PA for a few years, so I was taught how to negotiate pricing) are a dying breed, and a *good* PA commands close to a 6 figure salary at a manufacturer, because that MFR knows that his savings through the negotiating skills will easily be thrice the salary he pays the PA.
So to truly answer your question..OBO *does* mean Or Best Offer, but only when the offer is made in good faith, by someone who isn’t trying to be a complete and utter asswipe, and is nothing more than a heathen who has not the self-respect to know better than to insult another man.
Yeah, yeah, yeah…freedom of speech, freedom to be a prick, blahblahblah…I much prefer negotiations in good faith, with a man (or woman) who doesn’t try to insult my intelligence.
A lot of it has to do with Americans not having a culture that values haggling a whole lot
It’s not just that American culture (in general) doesn’t value haggling a lot, but that American culture actively dislikes haggling. It’s part of the culture of convenience that most Americans just want to know the price and pay it, and view haggling as an inconvenience and waste of time. It’s why Saturn’s “no haggle” pricing was such a big deal, and was probably what attracted a lot of their first customers.
It’s why so many people hate buying new cars, or houses.
These people also want to save money, so you end up with the stupidity like what you saw: “I don’t want to haggle, but I don’t want to pay your starting price, so I’ll just ask what the least you’ll take is.”
The best response to that is “Like I said, I’ll take $Y for it. If you want to pay less, you’ll have to haggle. If you don’t want to haggle, you’ll pay $Y.”
Whenever someone adds “or best offer” they already have a lower figure in mind that they will accept. No harm in being blunt and cutting to the chase. At least that is how I look at it.
No…stating *OBO* does NOT indicate that the seller *has a lower figure in mind*. What *OBO* indicates is that the seller is willing to consider an offer, if his asking price is perceived to be on the higher end of the recent price range for a comparable product.
The first one is someone pegging the value at the upper end of the Kelly BB price because *his* opinion is that his car is somewhere between Good and Excellent condition. Someone else will peg his car as firmly in the *good* category and make an offer of around $1800, while someone else who maybe really NEEDS a car looks it over and figures its in *almost* excellent condition, and will offer $1950 or so.
Someone who says *FIRM* is already at the lowest he’s willing to go, and will not get many lookers, because he has obviously indicated that he isn’t going to budge in his price.
OBO is NOT *I have a lower price*…what it IS though, is * I feel the car is worth $2100, but am willing to negotiate a bit if you don’t feel its in the same condition (and hence the same value) as what I think it is.*
What OBO also is NOT, is an invitation for some schlep to call and say *I’ll give you $500 sight unseen, cash, in one hour. Do we have a deal?* That is just an insult to ones intelligence.
@ John Hardin: OBO does mean “or best offer”, but there is always the assumption that the offer has to be acceptable to the seller, and speaking to the main thrust of my post, it also requires an actual offer to be made .
@ Jake: Hell, I will be honest – I hate haggling too, but I hate it more when people do this kind of nonsense… If I were to walk up to a realtor and ask him what the family’s “bottom dollar price” for their house would be, he would laugh me out of it, and yet people consider that appropriate for things like firearms. The sad thing is that almost everything is up for negotiation these days, if people are just willing to expend the effort to do so… But, you are right – as a culture, we value our time more than we value saving money. Of course, given that time is money, I guess it works out in the end. Maybe.
@ Dave_H: I would accept a lower offer, yes, but just like the buyer is trying to save all the money he can, the seller is likewise trying to make/save all the money he can, and asking the seller to effectively negotiate against himself is… well… rude.
I hate to be the ant at the picnic, but I despise haggling. Set a price that will make you happy. If I don’t want to pay that price I will go elsewhere.
I see $1,500 OBO as a scam. Basically to me it says “This object isn’t worth $1,500. I know what it IS worth because I do this for a living (or have spent enough time selling things like this) that I think I can screw you”. IMNSHO, of course.
Now I realize that the denizens of THIS blog are nothing but kind and gentle souls who would never take advantage of a poor n00b, but we poor innocent trusting souls must protect ourselves.
@John Hardin…
Not at all…OBO means *or Best Offer*…and in days gone by, between men of Ettiquette, it would have been insulting to:
A) ask what the lowest possible price (ie: Bottom Line) is for the item being sold…
and
B) an insult to offer a price any more than 12% – 15% less than the asking price.
…
So to truly answer your question..OBO *does* mean Or Best Offer, but only when the offer is made in good faith, by someone who isn’t trying to be a complete and utter asswipe, and is nothing more than a heathen who has not the self-respect to know better than to insult another man.
Thanks for clarifying that. I’ve never been introduced to the finer points of negotiating.
@ Bob H: The problem is that I know what the firearm is worth to me, but I am not sure what it is worth to other people, and, hence, the OBO. Again, I would certainly like to get what I am asking, but that is pure, unbridled optimism, especially in light of all buyers looking to get as good a deal as they can.
random quotes
“I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials.” by George Mason
When I get those inquiries, my stock response is, “My listing price is $X. My lowest price is $X. If you have a price in mind, make an offer.”
Well, when I put something up as “$500 obo” my favorite is people responding with “I’ll give you $200 in cash today”.
Yeah sparky, I’m willing to haggle over $50, not over 50%.
I don’t even respond to those people.
I’ll give you $5!
Because they don’t know the art of the haggle. Need to watch this from Monty Python: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n3LL338aGA
What I used to do when placing classifieds that state $X OBO, is when someone asks what the bottom line price is, I *add* 25% to $X.
Then when the response is *Huh? I asked what your bottom line is!* I respond with *My bottom line is $X + 25%….but I’m willing to entertain a competitive offer*…
Usually stops right there, and they leave me alone.
Negotiation is an art, and the populace of the age in which we live is largely artless, alas. Tacky, tacky. It’s sad when the person who has a genuine interest in an article they, and don’t have the sense to realize when they are insulting the seller of same.
…so “OBO” does not actually mean “or best offer” if the best offer isn’t good enough?
@ ZerCool: Yeah, but giving them your lowest price generally means that is all you are going to get – they are, in effect, asking you to negotiate against yourself, which is a silly, and borderline insulting, thing indeed.
@ Robb Allen: I respond ot them just to point and laugh, but, aside from that, yeah… those people are idiots.
@ JP: For my pocket lint? Sold!
@ Midwest Chick: Heh, hell, if they would just pay me what I was asking, I would be a lot happier and take them up on it immediately… but this is at the opposite end of the spectrum, and it is just stupid. A lot of it has to do with Americans not having a culture that values haggling a whole lot, and a lot of it probably has to do with folks trying to save all they can, but, really? *sigh*
@ Dragon: Ooh. I might just have to steal that from you
.
@ phlegmfatale: Still, I have to assume these people have purchased cars in the past, or gone to flea markets, or something similar like that… And, by the same token, if I wanted to only get my bare minimum price, why would I not just go ahead and post that? “Artless” indeed, and thoughtless to boot.
@John Hardin…
Not at all…OBO means *or Best Offer*…and in days gone by, between men of Ettiquette, it would have been insulting to:
A) ask what the lowest possible price (ie: Bottom Line) is for the item being sold…
and
B) an insult to offer a price any more than 12% – 15% less than the asking price.
This is why Purchasing Agents (I works as a PA for a few years, so I was taught how to negotiate pricing) are a dying breed, and a *good* PA commands close to a 6 figure salary at a manufacturer, because that MFR knows that his savings through the negotiating skills will easily be thrice the salary he pays the PA.
So to truly answer your question..OBO *does* mean Or Best Offer, but only when the offer is made in good faith, by someone who isn’t trying to be a complete and utter asswipe, and is nothing more than a heathen who has not the self-respect to know better than to insult another man.
Yeah, yeah, yeah…freedom of speech, freedom to be a prick, blahblahblah…I much prefer negotiations in good faith, with a man (or woman) who doesn’t try to insult my intelligence.
It’s not just that American culture (in general) doesn’t value haggling a lot, but that American culture actively dislikes haggling. It’s part of the culture of convenience that most Americans just want to know the price and pay it, and view haggling as an inconvenience and waste of time. It’s why Saturn’s “no haggle” pricing was such a big deal, and was probably what attracted a lot of their first customers.
It’s why so many people hate buying new cars, or houses.
These people also want to save money, so you end up with the stupidity like what you saw: “I don’t want to haggle, but I don’t want to pay your starting price, so I’ll just ask what the least you’ll take is.”
The best response to that is “Like I said, I’ll take $Y for it. If you want to pay less, you’ll have to haggle. If you don’t want to haggle, you’ll pay $Y.”
Whenever someone adds “or best offer” they already have a lower figure in mind that they will accept. No harm in being blunt and cutting to the chase. At least that is how I look at it.
No…stating *OBO* does NOT indicate that the seller *has a lower figure in mind*. What *OBO* indicates is that the seller is willing to consider an offer, if his asking price is perceived to be on the higher end of the recent price range for a comparable product.
For instance…
“2000 Hyundai Sonata, 5-speed, AC/CD/PW/PL/Sunroof. 150K all highway mileage. $2100 OBO*
OR
“2000 Hyundai Sonata, 5-speed, AC/CD/PW/PL/Sunroof. 150K all highway mileage. $1500 FIRM*
The first one is someone pegging the value at the upper end of the Kelly BB price because *his* opinion is that his car is somewhere between Good and Excellent condition. Someone else will peg his car as firmly in the *good* category and make an offer of around $1800, while someone else who maybe really NEEDS a car looks it over and figures its in *almost* excellent condition, and will offer $1950 or so.
Someone who says *FIRM* is already at the lowest he’s willing to go, and will not get many lookers, because he has obviously indicated that he isn’t going to budge in his price.
OBO is NOT *I have a lower price*…what it IS though, is * I feel the car is worth $2100, but am willing to negotiate a bit if you don’t feel its in the same condition (and hence the same value) as what I think it is.*
What OBO also is NOT, is an invitation for some schlep to call and say *I’ll give you $500 sight unseen, cash, in one hour. Do we have a deal?* That is just an insult to ones intelligence.
@ John Hardin: OBO does mean “or best offer”, but there is always the assumption that the offer has to be acceptable to the seller, and speaking to the main thrust of my post, it also requires an actual offer to be made
.
@ Jake: Hell, I will be honest – I hate haggling too, but I hate it more when people do this kind of nonsense… If I were to walk up to a realtor and ask him what the family’s “bottom dollar price” for their house would be, he would laugh me out of it, and yet people consider that appropriate for things like firearms. The sad thing is that almost everything is up for negotiation these days, if people are just willing to expend the effort to do so… But, you are right – as a culture, we value our time more than we value saving money. Of course, given that time is money, I guess it works out in the end. Maybe.
@ Dave_H: I would accept a lower offer, yes, but just like the buyer is trying to save all the money he can, the seller is likewise trying to make/save all the money he can, and asking the seller to effectively negotiate against himself is… well… rude.
I hate to be the ant at the picnic, but I despise haggling. Set a price that will make you happy. If I don’t want to pay that price I will go elsewhere.
I see $1,500 OBO as a scam. Basically to me it says “This object isn’t worth $1,500. I know what it IS worth because I do this for a living (or have spent enough time selling things like this) that I think I can screw you”. IMNSHO, of course.
Now I realize that the denizens of THIS blog are nothing but kind and gentle souls who would never take advantage of a poor n00b, but we poor innocent trusting souls must protect ourselves.
@ Dragon wrote:
Thanks for clarifying that. I’ve never been introduced to the finer points of negotiating.
@ Bob H: The problem is that I know what the firearm is worth to me, but I am not sure what it is worth to other people, and, hence, the OBO. Again, I would certainly like to get what I am asking, but that is pure, unbridled optimism, especially in light of all buyers looking to get as good a deal as they can.