So, does anyone know anything about the Firepower Extreme FX45 Thunderbolt? Because, let me tell you, Google is failing me miserably, and the whole “Compatible with most 1911 parts, and accepts 1911 magazines.” bit at the end kind of concerns me – is it a 1911 or is it not? Of course, so does the “LPA Bomar” sights – is it one, or is it the other, or is it that sight “style”?
Make no mistake, I would absolutely love a customized-out-the-wazoo 1911 (even if I have no intelligent opinion either way on most of the customization datapoints offered by SVI), but the fact is that I would almost fear carrying it – scuffing it would break your heart, it being stolen would be worse, and God forbid you actually have to use it and it gets locked away (or worse) in some police department’s evidence locker. By the same token, I sure as hell do not trust my abilities to examine a used 1911 and ensure someone has not gotten creative on it with a Dremel (much though Weer’d tries to convince me it is not that hard), so finding a relatively cheap-off-the-rack 1911 that I can still fiddle around with and feel comfortable carrying (from both the cost perspective, and the reliability/durability perspective) has always been something of a goal.
But, by the same token, when I buy something that looks like a 1911, I kind of want it to actually be a 1911.
STI Spartan? Not the most attractive pistol in my opinion but in that price range, that would be my choice. I don’t like adjustable sights, but the one you linked also has adjustable sights, so…
Found something: http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=278093
That has some of the same markings, notably at the rear of the slide, so I assume this other one is just rebadged, so to speak. Yeah, found more:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/07/13/ati-fx45-series-1911-pistols/
Personally, I’d pass. I agree, “some” parts commonality probably isn’t a good sign. Even in 1911s that should be to spec replacing parts can be a nightmare… like my Para SSP that just would not accept a replacement mag release when the factory part broke (!!) because of a big void in the casting. Four different mag releases from quality manufacturers, vernier calipers, and hours of sanding and I never got one of them to fit.
I stand by my Spartan recommendation. It also uses some major parts from the Philippines but hey, at least STI will stand behind it if it goes tits up. I have two STIs: one has run flawlessly over 3000 rounds (Ranger II in 9mm), and the other has had magazine-related issues only (Ranger in 45).
Honestly, I do not much like adjustable sights for a carry weapon either, but I was just pointing out another slight discrepancy in the listing over at ATI – I have to admit, it did not give me too many warm fuzzies.
Thanks for digging up those pages, though… they do not answer the question of “some” parts, but at least it gives me a few more views and a little more information about their background.
Part of the reason to know and love the 1911 is that parts from one should be able to fit in another with an absolute bare minimum of actual “fitting” work (none, in my case)… kind of defeats the point when companies go off on their lonesomes and do proprietary builds (unless you are the company in question, in which case it makes perfect sense
).
Joe Huffman loves the hell out of his STIs as well, and they may be where I go for my first dip into the pool… Seems as though it is hard to go wrong with them.
For that price point I’d go STI Spartan.
http://www.tds-us.com/viewitem.php/tds/pd2072048/STI_SPARTAN_-_45ACP
Its a real-deal 1911 made in Texas by people who know how to make 1911s. Should be able to get any small details (sights, controls, grips, guide rod ect) changed either by your self or with short money from a gun smith.
Hell its a damn sharp looking gun. From what I can see of it I’d dump the guide rod for a standard government rod and plug, and I might consider dumping the rear sight block for a Novac low-mount two-dot rear sight, but I’d have to shoot it a lot to decide that.
weambulance is 100% correct.
Also I’m sure you could find various S&W, Springfields, at a similar price point that I’d also recomend.
As a general rule I’ve been hearing some really good things on many of the “no-name” 1911s, but there’s still a LOT of shit out there, and given that you just can’t make a 1911 as cheaply as a polymer frame pistol, even a $400 NIB 1911 isn’t much of a good deal if it won’t run.
I will say you can find guns from Auto Ord and Para Ord in these price ranges, I would NOT recommend them, as I’ve read far too many horror stories from these guns.
On the other hand I have also a large amount of people very happy with their Rock Island Armory 1911s, but I don’t know if I’d trust them, still my trust is growing.
You have lots of options in this price range for new (You should still look at used guns too!) without having to go for a leap-of-faith at some Pacific Island fly-by-night 1911.
When it’s done, I’m going to be carrying a $2000-ish custom, commissioned 1911 built locally (MA!) from scratch. It’s going to have exactly the sights I like, exactly the slide serrations that feel good in my hand, exactly the stocks I prefer, exactly the recoil system I desire, the hammer I chose, the trigger I chose, and the trigger-weight I want. All of these custom features, hopefully, will make it the gun I shoot the fastest and most accurately.
If it ends up in an evidence locker, something has happened that will surely make the loss of a couple thousand dollars worth of custom gun irrelevant.
Also, STIs are all ugly as sin. And the Spartan is one of one or two of their products not made in Texas.
FWIW, I bought a Rock Island Officer model a few years back. It was fine with ball, but the sights were apparently regulated for 50 yards or so. It would shoot literally four inches low at 7 yards from a rest. It wouldn’t feed any HP ammo I had because the throat was horrible (although I tested it at the shop and it was fine there…), and so much metal was removed from the barrel that it was impossible to fix without replacing it. I liked shooting it enough that I wanted to keep it, but new sights and a barrel would have cost as much as I paid to begin with, so I sold that and my other Officer model (Colt Officer’s ACP) for the STI Ranger, which is purely awesome.
I will say the machining in the major parts on my RIA blew away the two Colts I once had. The Colts showed horrible tool marks everywhere in the slide and on the frame rails. I was not impressed.
Honestly the ONLY 1911 I would personally buy in that price range is the STI Spartan. Next cheapest would be a Kimber Custom II (if they’re still going for cheap anyway). I’ve known five or six guys with Custom IIs and they were all happy with them. Between the two, I’d rather have a Spartan with a fixed rear sight and a green fiber optic front. I get horrible hammer bite so any sort of GI style pistol is out.
I don’t like Springfield thumb safeties, which is pretty much the only reason I’ve never bought one. The thumb safety is relatively easy to replace, if you have fine diamond files and patience. I have a S&W 1911PD that has done well, but it’s not traditional what with the alloy frame and external extractor. And it does throw about 1 in 10 cases right into my face. It is very accurate and reliable so far though.
Hmm, if my SSP’s broken mag release wasn’t enough, Para also gave me shit about replacing the part because I had replaced the mainspring housing and they almost refused to cover it. As if that had anything at all to do with the giant hole in the mag release where metal was supposed to be. At about 3000 rounds the finish on the rails was getting worn and rough and the gun started feeling really gummy, and the thing was starting to loosen up a lot (all standard pressure ammo was fired, no +P). At 3000 rounds! Sooo yeah I’d stay away from Para Ordnance.
ZK…
What’s your point? I carry a $2300 Kimber custom shop gun most of the time. I have seven 1911s and have sold more than that. My limited USPSA gun is an SVI that would cost near $3000 new nowadays, not including mags which run near $100 each last I checked. The only major manufacturer that hasn’t had a 1911 in my collection at one point or another is Springfield. None of which has anything to do with the subject at hand.
Once upon a time, when I was entering the 1911 market, I thought spending $900 on a pistol was pretty steep. Now, that’s a cheap gun to me. My last 1911 was $1000 and I was mildly worried about spending so little. Again, this has little bearing on the question.
Linoge is obviously not in the market for a $2000+ gun. But ya know what? Even if he was, I would still recommend STI. Except I notice none of their single stack guns have an MSRP over $1950. Given the quality of the “lower level” guns I own, MSRP ~$1100, I expect a $1900 STI would be awesome. STI has given me the most value for my dollar by a long shot out of all the 1911s I’ve owned.
A buddy of mine got the Taurus 1911 a few months ago. He loves it and from the couple of times I’ve shot it I can say that, for the price point, it’s a damn fine gun.
Damn. Make a few offhand comments about 1911s, and everyone pipes up… and I did that all without even mentioning Glocks
. Thanks for the thoughts, everyone!
@Weer’d Beard – I had honestly forgotten that STI made something in that pricerange… With their stuff, my brain just automatically attaches a +$1000 pricepoint, and mostly discards it.
Like I said, I definitely agree about the sights, and while that is typically something I would have a smith do, it is not exactly complicated or expensive, and part commonality is more-or-less guaranteed. As for the guiderod, well, that is just another one of those interminable debates about 1911s… I would probably run it like it came for a while, but if I wanted to change it, hell, that is something I could do
.
I definitely like how the 1911 market is getting flooded these days, and there are some shiners in the pile of crud at the bottom, but the trick is finding those bloody things, which is why I was asking
. This thing could turn out to be awesome. It could turn out to be crap. But I surely am not willing to make the bet myself.
And, hey, those Pac Islanders have a bit of history cranking out cheap 1911s as damned fast as they can…
@ZK – Congratulations on your piece, and congratulations on being in a financial position where you can write off a $2000 firearm with nary a second glance. Personally, I fail to see a situation or case wherein a firearm that can empty a magazine into a dime at 25 yards is a superior self-defense firearm than one that can do the same into a six inch circle – sure, tighter is always better, but I am just not seeing it. If you can accurately and reliably plug man-sized targets at range, then it does not matter if you have a $5000 mantlepiece or a $500 anchor.
And, like I said, I have nary an opinion about most of the customizeation options that are out there… One has to start somewhere, after all, and dropping that kind of money on something I am likely to customize out of my tolerances does not quite seem to make sense either.
But, then, you must be seeing something else in general – STIs look like 1911s to me, aside from their 2011 frames, that is.
@weambulance – The beavertail grip safety is about the only single, solitary thing I actually care about on a 1911 – it is absolutely required for me. I have not shot one with the traditional GI safety yet, and I do not plan to, but I like hte beavertail well enough already to go with it… and the price difference is not that significant.
Sucks about the Rock Island, though… Seems, from the reviews, that they might be improving their quality and durability, but those could very well be flukes.
All of the Gun Blogger .45s and 9mms appear to be having rather significant finish issues as well – must run in the Para family, which is unfortunate, because, otherwise, they seem to have performed rather well.
$100 a mag? Are they made out of pure unobtanium?
One day, I would absolutely love to be able to buy some beautiful racegun that can not only shoot a flea off the dog’s back, but also looks like it was hand crafted by Tibetan monks on the thighs of virgins… and once I compete with it a few times, and drop it a few more times, I might start carrying it. But for the time, “knockaround gun” is about as far up the scale as I am concerned – I am having a hard time rationalizing an SP101 at the moment, much less getting it past the Better Half, and it would either be that or a 1911 this year. In the end, it will probably be the wheelgun, especially for its training-by-dry-fire application, but I still lust after JMB’s masterpiece.
I will, however, mark you down as yet another vote for STI – seems they have a lot of supporters out there
.
@Brass – Unfortunately, while their price is likewise outstanding, Tam’s crack about Taurus pistols typically having more frequent flier miles than their owners still sticks in my brain. If they would just charge a little more for a little better quality, they would flat-out rock.
@ZK – Who’s making the gun for you?
One of these days I’ll get a custom build done.
Well, I sort-of came across as a dick, so, sorry about that. It wasn’t my intent.
My only point is that you’re *very* unlikely to have something happen that makes your carry-gun end up lost, so you might as well carry your best appropriate gun, regardless of cost. And I didn’t mean to say “Look at me! I have expensive guns!” I just mean that relative to the cost of one’s life, a legal defense, civil suits, etc, a $2000 gun is not going to make a big difference. That’s the cost of two lawyers thinking about your case over lunch. A real murder defense, if needed because of a bad DA or unclear facts, will run $house.
I agree custom can be the wrong way to go if you’re not really sure what you want, but the quality difference between a semi-custom or custom gun and a factory 1911 is noticeable, and it’s hard to go back to factory 1911s once you make the jump.
STI has a great reputation, and I didn’t really mean to disparage them too much in a drive-by snark. I, personally, don’t care for many models slide contours or serrations. But they make fine guns, and, I hear, have great custom service, even in non-free states. I doubt you can go wrong with one, and the prices are right. Their Spartan, I’m pretty sure, isn’t a texas-made gun, but they’ll likely support it as well as a more expensive model.
@Weer’d Beard – Remsport in Ludlow, MA. I can’t say enough good things about these guys. They’re a little fly-by-night shop that mostly manufactures frames, slides, and barrels for other companies.
From doing some poking around, it looks as though the frame, slide, and barrel are provided by Armscor of the Philippines, with the other budget-saving feature being that the Spartans are parkerized, rather than stainless or some whizbang finish. Its internals still come from, and are fitted by, STI, so I would imagine that they would support it as well as any of the other firearms they produce.
And yet even with all of those cost-cutting details, from a benchrest, it can manage 3 inch groups at 25 yards, and two inch offhand at 12 yards. Given that most confrontations involving handguns take place at conversational ranges, that is, so far as I can tell, all you really need to be a significant player. The finish is kind of a drag, especially given the number of alternatives out there these days, but it contributes to the price tag, so I am not going to complain too much.
All that said, just as the probabilities of you losing your firearm due to it being employed are somewhat small, so, too, are the probabilities of you actually using it, in general. For me, purchasing a firearm of that cost would preclude such things as training, or perhaps even ammunition, and the funds are definitely better invested in those than a shiny firearm, no matter how whizbang it might be.
And, most of all, you are absolutely right – customized 1911s appear to be a somewhat more-useful version of crack, with all of the associated problems
. No need to start down that particular path quite yet.
ZK -
Sorry for the misunderstanding, I thought we were having a pissing contest.
I imagine we’re both pretty much in the same spot when it comes to 1911s, bar the usual disagreements. WRT STI: Before I got my first STI, I also thought they were fugly and I wasn’t going to bother buying one. Then Larry Correia’s group buy came along when I was in Iraq, I had loads of money to spend, and I needed a mid-power training gun, so I decided to take a chance with a 9mm 1911. It was only my third 1911 so I didn’t have a lot to compare it to, but it blew me away. That impression hasn’t really faded since. If I had to go back and do it again, I wouldn’t feel bad buying all STIs from the start.
Yeah if I’m at the point where I just shot someone, I’m probably not too worried about losing my pistol. I can honestly say I don’t want to kill anyone in America, not because I care about the whole taking a human life thing (if someone attacks me, they forfeited their life, as far as I’m concerned–I’ll do what I can to defuse the situation but not at increased risk to myself or others) but because it’s such a huge legal problem. That said, it’s good to have a backup so in case the guy’s buddies want revenge you’re not a sitting duck when the cops take your only defensive weapon away.
Linoge –
You mentioned buying an SP101? I’m curious what you meant by “dry-fire training” that doesn’t apply to the 1911 as well. I ask because there are some myths floating around that you’ll wreck a 1911 by dry firing it (peening the bolt face with the firing pin) but AFAIK that’s a few decades out of date. I do believe it’s bad to drop a slide on an empty chamber (habitually, not just once or twice) because it can damage the fire control group, but I’m not about to test that one out on my guns.
I don’t know anything about your armory, but if I had to choose between an SP101 and a 1911 for your only real defensive handgun, I’d actually have to say SP101. They’re cheaper, you don’t have to worry about spending $$$ on magazines, and you can probably focus entirely on shooting and not spending $300+ on defensive ammo testing to make sure your gun feeds it all properly. All in all revolvers are just much more versatile. The learning curves are sort of equal, just different. You probably know all this anyway, just my opinion. Only thing is, 38 Special or 357 Mag is significantly more expensive than 45 ACP, at least around here.
That said, I did have one of my Smiths lock up so hard I couldn’t unload it last weekend. I was doing load development for my 657 mountain gun (41 mag) and I wasn’t touching max loads yet, when the ejector rod center pin got jammed so bad I couldn’t open the cylinder. Nothing would move. I had no idea what was wrong with it until a few days later. Turns out the center pin was peened badly on the front tip and wouldn’t move freely in the ejector rod. Five minutes with a file fixed it, but this is a gun I use for grizzly protection (I live in Fairbanks, AK if I haven’t mentioned that). Imagine firing three rounds at a grizzly and then oops! No more bang! It’s like they say, revolvers don’t usually break, but when they do, they break hard. Now I’m going to need to see at least 200 max loads through it with no signs of peening before I trust it again. …sigh. Good thing I have a 3″ 629 for backup.
Back to 1911s… I wouldn’t feel bad about parkerization. It’s better than polymer, IMO. It doesn’t matter what the finish is, you’ll ding it all up and wear it down in a holster. You’ll also feel a lot better about scratching the finish on your parkerized budget STI when you make your inevitable mistakes on disassembly or reassembly than you would scratching a high dollar finish, or decent blueing. Just put about five cases of ammo through it, and by then you’ll have a good idea of what you really want to change about it if anything. Any serious work will require refinishing anyway.
Sheesh. As much as I’m writing here, maybe I should spend some time actually starting up my latest blog project… it’s obvious I need an outlet.
Nope, nothing so specific – I was more looking for a firearm with a heavy double-action pull that can mount a crimson trace laser and be carried if I want to. The SP101 fits that bill nicely, and with a point target across the living room that I might not care about, and a few snapcaps, one can train one’s finger and arm to handle the trigger pull of pretty much any firearm. Or so I am told
.
By way of defensive armament, I currently carry around a Walther PPS, and have a full size, original Baby Eagle as well (at least by way of handguns). 1911s have always been a lust item for me, whereas wheelguns are a new interest both for training purposes and the niftiness of the design.
Sucks about your Smith, though… I would definitely spend some extensive quality time with it at the range before you count on it again, especially since you have such wonderful-and-fuzzy neighbors to contend with
. Just goes to show that while revolvers may be older, anyone who says that they are “simpler” in design has never taken off the sideplate and really examined the insane clockwork going on in there.
Good point about the finish, though… parkerization is relatively easy to repair, or redo, if you have to, and ages relatively well… and if it is going to be a carry piece, it might as well look like one
.
At any rate, if you would like somewhere already-established to write, this is actually already a multi-author weblog – WizardPC occasionally pokes his head in here and jots something down. I am sure we could find room for another keyboard, though
.
Good call on the SP101 then, they’re fine revolvers. I’ll probably get one in 22 LR at some point (although I see they no longer make them, grr), since I’m invested in N-frames for full power wheelguns. Need a 627 4″ to round out the N-frame collection though, and I sure wouldn’t turn away from a 41 Magnum 4″ Redhawk if one came my way.
I find that I actually have a better (smoother) double action trigger pull with my bone stock 629 3″ than my 657 with its excellent professional trigger job. The 657 feels awesome, very smooth and much lighter than stock, but I just don’t control it as well yet. I think the extra tension in my hands from the heavy trigger is helping steady my hands, which is bad. More training needed. I should be able to keep my grip rock solid and stroke the trigger without any influence on the rest of my hand, which is of course a lot easier the shorter the trigger stroke gets.
I’m not too worried about the 657 since my actual solution was to swap center pins from a different revolver. The 629-4 6″ gun I never use anymore (because it’s too big to carry conveniently, I’ll mount a scope someday) has had many, many rounds through it with no signs of peening on the center pin, so I’m assuming the 657 part had a bad heat treat or something. I’m going to do testing with both, probably a minimum of 150 of my carry loads in each, and check the pins every 30 or 50 rounds. Really, though, the center pin only costs like eight bucks. I’m mostly doing this so I know if I need to pull the center pin after every range session and examine it or what, since I’m shooting max loads, or if I need to tone down the load a bit. I’ll probably buy a new center pin and ejector rod to keep in the parts bin just in case; $20 is cheap insurance.
This little incident has been my first foray into working on my revolvers, since I’ve never had one fail before in any way, and it’s pretty interesting. This is how I do most of my learning anyway, something breaks and I have to learn how it works to fix it. I’ll be removing the internal lock from my 629-6 3″ as soon as my Kuhnhausen manual shows up to give me confidence to actually pull a sideplate.
How do you like the Baby Eagle? I’ve heard they have reliability problems, but I only fired one once a few years back and only know one other person who has one. I don’t pay much attention to the DA/SA semiauto market though; single action won my loyalty years back.
Another thing I like about parkerization is its roughness. One of my 1911s, a Kimber SIS Pro, has such a slick finish (and the SIS deal on the slide is worthless for grip) that if I ever had sweaty or bloody hands, there’s no way I would be able to work the slide. I shoot it better and quicker than any of my other guns, measurable on my shot timer, and it has the best balance of any of them except my SVI, but it’s worthless if I can’t fix a malfunction with slippery hands. I’m going to probably have serrations cut right through the SIS mark and have the slide gunkoted or something. I’m way past the point where I care how a gun looks if performance is lost in the process of making it pretty. I love everything else about that gun, even the finish, and it would be PERFECT if the slide serrations were worth a damn. (Well, not perfect, it doesn’t have a bobtail frame… but it will some day!)
I appreciate the offer, and I may take you up on it. I like writing online, but I don’t think I have enough free time to maintain a regular blog myself. I just don’t want to be that guy that never posts anything, you know?
No .22s are rolling off the assembly lines any more, but apparently you can get some whacky-assed .327 Magnum if you want… And you definitely illustrate the “one is none” mentality of firearm maintenance. If any of my tools go belly-up, it will be down until such time as I can get it back from the smith, or get parts shipped to me – they are all loners, simply because I have never had the opportunity to duplicate any of them, even in the same categories (N-frames, etc.). That is definitely something I need to rectify in the future, but, like 1911s, it might be a little while.
I have not shot my Baby Eagle very much recently, but aside from a few stovepipes while breaking it in, I have not had any significant problems from it… but, being that it is based on a CZ design with Tangfolio parts, I can see how there might be problems in the series. Still, if it does decide to go and croak on me, it would serve damn well as a blunt-force instrument, which is more than can be said of my PPS
.
Anywise, let me know if you ever want somewhere to jot some stuff down… We have been averaging somewhere between 200 and 300 readers a day, so at least you will be getting a fair bit of exposure, and you can always use it as a launching point for getting up to speed and starting your own particular weblog (I can help out with that, too, by the by).