Commenter “Lynn H.” beat me to it, but, yes, I was openly carrying my Walther when we got in our accident over the weekend. So how did that affect things? Read on.
Our accident transpired within the city limits of Knoxville, and was responded to by the Knoxville Police Department, Rural/Metro ambulances, and a fire truck from an agency I honestly do not remember – it did not stick around too long.
The first police officer I spoke to (his arrival felt to be about five minutes after the accident, but it was probably less) requested my driver’s license, registration, and proof of insurance, and went back to his cruiser to document all of that information and pull up our current address (Tennessee charges to issue you a license with a new address on it, outside of standard renewal periods) – I honestly do not know if he saw that I was carrying or not. However, shortly thereafter, another officer walked up to me while I was talking with the paramedics, and the conversation went something like this, as best I recall:
Police Officer: Do you have a permit for that? *gesturing at the Walther*
Me: Yes, sir, I do.
Police Officer: Can I see it, if you do not mind?
Me: Yes, sir, just let me get it out. *reaches in pocket and hands over permit* Like I think I told your coworker, the address on that is wrong – we recently moved, and did not pay for new cards, but we did update the address online.
Police Officer: *examines card for a good long while* Yeah, that is not a problem. Thanks. *hands back card*
And that was it. None of the other four officers who were on-scene at varying points asked for my permit, and I was never asked to cover it up, put it in the car, or even keep my hands off it (though for anyone with an IQ over room temperature, that is pretty much a given). I did note that the officers did their best to leave one of them facing me throughout the hour or so we were all standing around looking at the wreck, but they did that with pretty much everyone, and I completely understand their reasons for doing so.
The two things I did wrong, with “adrenaline rush from being in an accident” being my excuse, are: (1) reflexively falling back on my military training and referring to police officers as “sir” when, from what I have been taught, they prefer “officer”, and (b) not explaining to the officer above that my permit was in my wallet, and my wallet was in my front-right pocket, before reaching for it. The first one probably does not matter that much, but with the second, I carry at about the 4:00 position, so going into my front-right pocket in front of a police officer is probably something I should have explained beforehand. Unfortunately, it is also something I do not really think about immediately after seeing a car flip over, but I remain unperforated, so things could have gone worse.
The paramedics either did not notice or did not care that I was armed, and the only comment from a bystander came from our tow truck driver, who said, “So you carry too, huh? Kind of sad that we need these more and more, ain’t it?” At the time, he was jockeying my Bullitt into position to tow behind the flatbedded Explorer, so I could only offer a somewhat non-conversational aggreement in response.
The end result? I continue to be somewhat surprised at the nearly complete lack of response to my openly carrying a firearm around in public. Sure, the police officer asked for my permit, but I would have been very surprised if they had never done so. When compared to the doom-and-gloom scenarios put forward by anti-open carry bigots on both sides of the fence, this non-event was just that – something that should have transpired within the realms of a police officer’s standard duties in incidents like these (until such time as Tennessee can manage Alaska/Arizona/Vermont-style constitutional carry), but hardly something to get one’s panties in a twist over.
As always, this information is presented purely anecdotally, and similar outcomes may be dependent upon the police department and police officers in question. However, in the case of the Knoxville Police Department and the officers who responded to our accident, they did exactly as I would have expected, and were professional, helpful, and courteous to boot. That is all I can ask for.
Glad you run into police officers that don’t panic at the sight of a gun. Oh wait. That’s liberals. Never mind.
Also every time I see the phrase “Alaska/Arizona/Vermont-style constitutional carry” I get this big grin.
Thanks for the follow-up post.
I’m still too self conscious to open carry but reading of your experiences helps me get less so.
Yeah, rub it in, why do you not?
And while Tennessee does have a surprisingly large liberal population, I guess I have simply never encountered one… I have noticed a few people giving me second looks, but running and screaming? Not so much.
Kinda disappointing, really…
@Lynn H. – Trust me, my first few times out with it strapped on my hip was so much worse than my first few times concealed carrying in public. With that, you could think everyone could see you printing/etc. all you like, and the reality is that no one really could. But with open carry, pretty much anyone can, so long as they are paying attention.
The good news? No one pays attention.
Just last night, I was picking up some couscous from Earth Fare, and a cute little blonde co-ed started asking me about the products in the store’s bulk section. My answers consisted mostly of “I do not know”, and “I guess”, and by the end of the fourth or fifth question, I finally had to say, “I have no idea, I am just here for the bulk grains.” She gave me a surprised look, and said, “Oh, sorry, I thought you worked here!”
Out in the car, I just had to wonder if she thought all of the Earth Fare employees packed – she approached me from my back-right quarter, and missing the black handgun and stingray holster would have required her to be very blonde indeed.
Take it slow, and do not let some grandstanding blowhard like me convince you that you should do something you do not necessarily want to do. That said, if you need any advice, insights, or tips, I can probably point you in the right direction… or make up some stuff of my own. Either way
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Ah come on Linoge. It was an accident and you surely were upset. You absolutely must have busted a few caps into someone. Guns+anger=blood in the streets. We all know that.
Linoge is right. Open-carry is something you will feel very self-conscious of at first but eventually you will forget about it as you realize, nobody is looking. Do what you want, where you want, at your own speed. It’s not a race or a competition and even if you feel you can’t do it, it’s not a loss.
@Lynn H:
Open carry does take some getting used to. Many of the people that I have talked to about openly carrying started by carrying with a fiend that is experienced at open carry. Head over to http://www.opencarry.org, head to the forums, and to your state forum. You will hopefully meet other open carriers and can meet them for lunch / bbq / litter pickup day. Also remember that the biggest single thing you can do is to look like this is normal, like you do this all the time.
And of course, whether open or conceaed, Carry!
Respectfully,
Pol
Do you need a permit to OC in TN?
Again great examples of what the antis preach being bullshit.
@Weerd:
Yeah. the permit is required for carry of any kind. Further, it is against the law to carry, full stop. The permit is a defense to the charge. Therefore, the presence of a weapon or ‘printing’ is PC for a terry stop to verify your permit. At least I can OC without risking my permit, unlike my wife’s friends in MA.
Regards,
Pol
While I’m glad that Open Carry is working out for so many people — I really wish it didn’t feel like you were rubbing it in for us poor Texans.
Have a little bit of time before the next session of the Legislation — need to start working on my state congress critters. See where they stand, if they will support Open Carry.
Linoge — I think you are doing a great job of showing how wrong the Open Carry opponents are (on both sides) — people just aren’t that afraid of a “man with a gun”.
The problem I have — especially with the pro-rights crowd — is they give so little credit to the public for intelligence and common sense. Keep up the good work Sir.
Man, Growing up in Maine people would often talk about the gun laws “Down South” and in Texas.
I have yet to see any place in the South and Southwest United States than the Tri-State area of Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont. Open carry 100% legal if you legally own the gun. Conceal carry is shall-issue, except for Vermont who treated concealed carry the same as open carry. (Maine is also the only state that has a carry permit that even resembles those of the South. ie Training class required, $60 Fee, and 1-month processing period. New Hampshire just takes down your information, runs a NICS check, and sometimes takes $10 from you. The longest wait I’ve heard of was 7 days) NFA items aren’t a problem (tho Vermont bans Suppressors for concerns over poaching), and you can carry wherever you want so long as the federal .gov doesn’t have a problem with that. Honest-to-God bars aren’t even an issue, and you can even have yourself a drink while openly carrying, and so long as you are not legally drunk at any time you are complying with the law.
And of course just like Mr. Linoge, we have ZERO problems.
I wasn’t open-carrying when I wrecked the bike (duh), but I have to commend the Goodlettsville, TN, PD. I informed the officer that I was a permit holder & was armed. He asked where the weapon was. I indicated, & tried to reach for, the location–that was when I discovered that the right arm didn’t work (temporarily). He retrieved it & told me he’d hold it for me.
Once I was discharged from Vanderbilt, we went by the cop shop & the weapon was cheerfully returned, along with best wishes for my recovery. Professional & compassionate folks.
@Patrick – Oh, right, I forgot to mention the trail of bodies and destruction that I left in my wake after the accident… Guess I thought the news crews would have covered it
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And exactly so – if you do not want to open carry, certainly, do not. I just rail, a lot, apparently, against those folks who would deprive us of the choice, for no better reason than their own personal fears. Such people are useless.
@Pol Mordreth – If I might add on to what you are saying, I certainly would not require it of anyone, but I would strongly suggest that you be mindful of your attire and presentation in public while openly carrying. Doing so makes you a representative of the firearm-owning community, whether you want to be or not, and it does not hurt to put your best foot forward.
I am not necessarily talking a full suit-and-tie, but just ensuring that your clothes are clean and you are well-kempt is a good step in the right direction.
And, speaking of, Lynn H., if you happen to be in the Knox region, we can definitely do as Pol suggested and meet up somewhere sometime, if you are so inclined.
@Bob S. – Sorry… it still blows my mind that, of all states, TX is not onboard with open carry. Still, we both have to deal with those Arizona schmucks, so at least there is that
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At this point, one of your best tactics might be just that – “all of these other states are onboard with significantly better observance of individuals’ inherent rights of self defense – what the hell is wrong with Texas?” Of course, you might want to use slightly more political phrasing, but you get the idea
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And, really, based on the number of people who have not noticed me openly carrying, I would not go so far as to say that “common sense” is particularly common these days… But, as you might figure, that particular sword cuts both directions. In the end, the best weapon we have against those who would nonsensically deprive us of choices is simply going out, putting our best foot forward, and doing it anywise. One does not a statistic make, but every time I go out openly carrying and I do not have the cops called on me, I join the ranks of thousands of other Americans doing so on a daily basis.
Eventually, more people might start getting a clue.
@Weer’d Beard – Pol already beat me to it, but in accordance with Opinion Number 01-154 of the Tennessee Attorney General, our “Handgun Carry Permit” does not expressly permit us to openly carry, but neither does it expressly deny us the ability. Thus, it is legal. That said, it is just an opinion, and not worth a whole lot.
I still have a tiny-assed copy of it printed out and stuffed in my wallet, just in case (something I would suggest all Tennessee open carriers do).
And I will tell you what… if the rest of the country had simply stuck with what our Founding Fathers intended, as generally personified by Vermont (do what you want, do not hurt others while doing so, and try to keep out of other people’s business), this country would frakking rock. As it is, we have a ways to go…
@Tennessee Budd – Decent of them to hold on to your firearm while you were getting patched up, and it is good to see that the KPD is not alone in its professional, courteous deportment.
Which brings me to one last point – not all open carry experiences are bright and cheerful, and I would remind everyone of ColtCCO’s nightmare when openly carrying at a Wal-Mart. The KPD officer effectively assaulted him out of ignorance, and the department more-or-less stole (i.e. “lost”, in police parlance) his very-expensive 1911 for a time. It could be that my friendly experience with the KPD officers this weekend was a direct result of the publicity gos-se-storm the KPD suffered after this frak-up.
Decided to give open carry a shot today (no pun intended).
Wrote about it over on Tennessee Gun Owners.
Here’s the link: http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/handgun-carry-self-defense/41030-i-lost-my-virginity-again.html#post538869
Linoge: don’t get up to your area much but when I do, I’ll try to let you know before I head up that way. It goes both ways, if you’re ever in southern middle Tennessee, let me know.
Awesome! Thanks for posting that, Lynn, and thanks for taking the first step. There is no race, and if open carry turns out to be something you are not comfortable with, or just not something you want to do, then it is no big deal, and not something to be concerned about. I do not wear spandex because I do not like the constricting fit, but that is just me.
Look for a post later today pointing to the TGO thread
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And, yeah, we are probably down that way about as often as you are up our way, but I will definitely drop you a note if we are!
@Linoge – Spandex? I don’t do spandex either.
Sorry, was not actually accusing you of doing such a thing, just saying – I do not personally wear spandex because it is not comfortable. But some people are comfortable with it, and do so, so more power to them.
Same thing for open/concealed – do what is comfortable, effective, and safe for you. So long as you are carrying, able to use it, and, more importantly, willing to use it, that is all I, or anyone else, can ask.
D’oh! Guess that one went right over my head.
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