Comments on: relighting the flame

By: Linoge

Linoge — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 22:20:00 +0000

Sorry, Ishida, should have specified – if the shotgun is being held by its slide, I would be very concerned over that kind of activity. But, then again, I never hold a shotgun without grasping the forward slide, so that was my fault for leaving it implied/assumed.
For a time, we thought the plastic in the 3″ers was fusing to the barrel, but that turned out to not be the case. Will definitely have my father test things out, though.
As for takedown of the 870, just did it this evening, to ensure I could, and removing the trigger assembly is quite optional – I removed the barrel band (again, requiring a tool, sadly), unscrewed the extended magazine, pulled out the slide, and the bolt and that little sled thingie popped out with it. The trigger assembly does require two pins for removal, I will grant you that, but I can clean out that area with a good scrubbing and swabbing when everything else is broken down. But, as I said, both fail on the “no tools for disassembly” requirement. But, then, so does my Baby Eagle. And my M1A. And my Trapdoor (though we can probably excuse it). Toolless disassembly seems to be a new revolution in things, I just wish people would update old designs to catch up – at least the 1911 required no “tools” that were not already a part of it (like magazine bottoms and whatnot).
Of course, in unscrewing the magazine tube, I have to catch the spring, lest it take something out on it way out, so there are trade offs . But there always are with different company’s takes on the same idea – always boils down to what you prefer, and what other people make for it.

By: ishida

ishida — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 21:58:58 +0000

Actually, it IS not abnormal at all for a pump-action’s pump to work itself under heavy recoil if it isn’t being held forward by a hand. There was a recent discussion about this on THR.
If it’s sticking with 3″ shells and works without a problem when you remove the barrel, it only really leaves two options for everything I can think of. The ammunition isn’t in spec, or the chamber has a flaw (but then why did it mostly work with 2.75s?). See if there is any other “cheap” 3″ shells around to try out, and see if there is the same problem.
Every takedown guide for the 870 I can find includes taking out the trigger assembly, which requires punching two pins. And optionally, the magazine spring and follower.
I haven’t had my 500 very long, and I’ve only had it apart twice. It’s pretty simple, with a grand total of 7 pieces including the trigger housing pin. There are groves for everything, and things don’t fit where they don’t belong. I just turn it upside down, slide the interrupter and shell stop into their respective channels, use a thumb and forefinger to hold them in IF one decides not to stay, and slide the trigger housing in. My only problem is lining up the trigger housing’s hole and the receiver’s hole to get the pin in easily. But I have that same problem with any kind of lining up parts that are stuck together with pins.
In exchange for the two extra parts, I get features that I prefer. “Anti-jam” elevator (is up all the time instead of down, tang safety, dual extractors, more ergonomically placed slide release (at the back of the trigger guard rather than the front), and a bit lighter weight. I only wish it were easier to get to the magazine’s innards–the tube is pretty much sealed. You have to take the whole magazine tube off.

By: Linoge

Linoge — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 18:07:53 +0000

LC: So mine is desperately trying to be a single-shot, break-open, and yours is desperately trying to be a semi-automatic. I am somewhat concerned, though, that people view yours automatically ejecting the spent casing as “not abnormal”, though… To my admittedly-not-a-gunsmith’s arse, any time a pump-action does something like that, I would be concerned – especially since I could swear that the bolt is more-or-less tied directly to the pump.
ishida: These were Winchester Super-X rounds, though from a sporting goods store, rather than Wal-Mart . The 2.75ers were Fiocchi rounds, but we did not bring along anything else to fool around with. I will get my father to start testing other companies/sizes/loads when he gets the chance.
As for the spitting, we honestly never got to the point of loading more than one round into the shotgun before it was broken down, simply because it kept bricking. Not sure if it was tied to the disassembly.
Regarding relative complexities, in my not-so-humble-but-irrelevant-to-everyone-else opinion, in this day and age, disassembling firearms for basic field-cleaning should result in the least possible number of pieces, and should require no tools at all. The Mossberg fails on the latter count (need at least something to pop out the trigger assembly retaining pin), but then so does my Remmy – need a flathead to undo the barrel band for the extended magazine. As for the least number of pieces, I am willing to expend a little more effort cleaning to have fewer pieces popping out. Even for the guy who appeared to be a smith of some sort, or at least well-versed in Mossbergs, it took a little finagling to balance holding those two fiddly bits in while sending home the slide/bolt group.
And watching the old-and-crusty Marine fight with it for half an hour was a bit sobering too (though he admitted to forgetting that the slide was necessary to get the bolt set up right – too many years since he broke one down, I guess).
In any case, my father now knows that he needs to spend a little time getting acclimatized to his new firearm, and I certainly agree that practice will make reassembly easier. At least the disassembly part is easy .

By: ishida

ishida — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 16:02:57 +0000

Sounds like an ammunition problem to me, if it’s ONLY the 3″ birdshot shells. Try a different brand if possible, several would be preferred. I know that people have problems with the Winchester walmart specials with their 870s (bad sizing control). My M500 just eats what I feed it.
Spitting out another round from the bottom when fired… Did this start before or after it was disassembled and reassembled?
I don’t get why people call it hard. It’s two pieces, and they would fall out of the Remington if they didn’t stake them in. If you pulled them out, and put them back in, they would fall out when you take it down as well. It makes cleaning behind the stop and interrupter harder, and makes it harder to replace them if needed. I’ve got small hands and have no problem getting it all back together quickly and easily.

By: LC Scotty

LC Scotty — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 14:29:24 +0000

Linoge,
I have a 500 that I picked up used and my experience is exactly the opposite (admittedly I have never run 3″ shells through it) -if I were to put the gun in a rest and pull the trigger, the action will open itself. It will literally eject the spent shell and the bolt will be at or near the rear of the receiver. I thought this was rather suspicious and have consulted a few smiths and forums with the general consensus that this is not abnormal.