Comments on: in search of information http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/11/in_search_of_information.html defending our rights from the ramparts Sat, 11 Feb 2012 19:20:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Linoge http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/11/in_search_of_information.html#comment-3883 Linoge Fri, 27 Nov 2009 15:11:48 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2251#comment-3883 Wierd... In any case, thanks for doing the digging. I guess that would explain why I could not find any statutes or codes covering intoxication and firearms :). Wierd… In any case, thanks for doing the digging. I guess that would explain why I could not find any statutes or codes covering intoxication and firearms :) .

]]> By: Eseell http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/11/in_search_of_information.html#comment-3882 Eseell Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:40:36 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2251#comment-3882 I'm sure they'd find something to bust you with if you were actually drunk, but it's not in statute. I, too, am surprised that this situation is not covered under <a href="http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/13/03102.htm&Title=13&DocType=ARS" rel="nofollow">"misconduct involving weapons."</a> I’m sure they’d find something to bust you with if you were actually drunk, but it’s not in statute. I, too, am surprised that this situation is not covered under “misconduct involving weapons.”

]]> By: Linoge http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/11/in_search_of_information.html#comment-3881 Linoge Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:29:02 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2251#comment-3881 <strong>Eseell:</strong> Thanks for doing the digging... just like Pennsylvania, that falls under the "completely whacky" heading for me. I wonder what anti-rights advocates would do if they fully comprehended that one could apparently be roaring drunk and "packing" in AZ (though something tells me such situations fall under "threat to the public good" or something similar). <strong>Sean:</strong> I was more approaching the law from the "it is illegal to be smashed and carrying" perspective, rather than the "it is legal to drink responsibly and carry" side. In any case, likewise, thanks for turning up the appropriate laws, or lack thereof. <strong>All:</strong> It is looking like the megapost for this small bit of research is being pushed back until next week. Apologies. Eseell: Thanks for doing the digging… just like Pennsylvania, that falls under the “completely whacky” heading for me. I wonder what anti-rights advocates would do if they fully comprehended that one could apparently be roaring drunk and “packing” in AZ (though something tells me such situations fall under “threat to the public good” or something similar).
Sean: I was more approaching the law from the “it is illegal to be smashed and carrying” perspective, rather than the “it is legal to drink responsibly and carry” side. In any case, likewise, thanks for turning up the appropriate laws, or lack thereof.
All: It is looking like the megapost for this small bit of research is being pushed back until next week. Apologies.

]]> By: Sean Sorrentino http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/11/in_search_of_information.html#comment-3880 Sean Sorrentino Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:53:36 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2251#comment-3880 "That said, is there no mention at all, anywhere, in any code, of whether or not intoxication while carrying is illegal? I find that somewhat surprising." yeah, it seems surprising, but no one has ever thought to make it illegal. i guess that's why i am always slipping in the blood of the innocents slaughtered in drunken bar shootouts. oh, wait. no, actually i am not. i wonder if maybe the professional whiners in the anti-gun world are lying? in any case, you may feel free to CC or OC in PA while drinking a beer in a public establishment. the free states bit is a response to the assumption that there must exist a law to make something permissable, not a reflection of the relative freedom of Tennessee and Pennsylvania. The Brady Bunch rates PA as 10 out of 50 for restrictive gun laws, mostly on the strength of our required NICS (actually PICS) check and state purchase registry on pistols. that gets us 16 out of our total 26 points. “That said, is there no mention at all, anywhere, in any code, of whether or not intoxication while carrying is illegal? I find that somewhat surprising.”
yeah, it seems surprising, but no one has ever thought to make it illegal. i guess that’s why i am always slipping in the blood of the innocents slaughtered in drunken bar shootouts. oh, wait. no, actually i am not. i wonder if maybe the professional whiners in the anti-gun world are lying? in any case, you may feel free to CC or OC in PA while drinking a beer in a public establishment.
the free states bit is a response to the assumption that there must exist a law to make something permissable, not a reflection of the relative freedom of Tennessee and Pennsylvania. The Brady Bunch rates PA as 10 out of 50 for restrictive gun laws, mostly on the strength of our required NICS (actually PICS) check and state purchase registry on pistols. that gets us 16 out of our total 26 points.

]]> By: Eseell http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/11/in_search_of_information.html#comment-3879 Eseell Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:40:38 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2251#comment-3879 I searched through the Arizona Revised Statutes Title 13 (Criminal Code), Chapter 31 (Weapons and Explosives) and Title 4 (Alcoholic Beverages), Chapter 2 (Regulations and Prohibitions), but I could not find anything that regulates the possession of a firearm while intoxicated or otherwise impaired other than <a href="http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/4/00244.htm&Title=4&DocType=ARS" rel="nofollow">Section 4-244</a> Paragraph 31 which reads, "[It is unlawful f]or any person in possession of a firearm while on the licensed premises of an on-sale retailer to consume spirituous liquor." I searched through the Arizona Revised Statutes Title 13 (Criminal Code), Chapter 31 (Weapons and Explosives) and Title 4 (Alcoholic Beverages), Chapter 2 (Regulations and Prohibitions), but I could not find anything that regulates the possession of a firearm while intoxicated or otherwise impaired other than Section 4-244 Paragraph 31 which reads, “[It is unlawful f]or any person in possession of a firearm while on the licensed premises of an on-sale retailer to consume spirituous liquor.”

]]> By: Linoge http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/11/in_search_of_information.html#comment-3878 Linoge Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:28:58 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2251#comment-3878 <strong>Weer'd:</strong> MA's laws on the topic are whacky... seem to boil down to "you could be in trouble if your BAC is 0.08 or higher <em>or</em> the arresting officer can convince the court you were intoxicated". Not something I would want to test. <strong>Bob:</strong> Yeah, Texas seems to fall under the same heading of strict definition <em>plus</em> situational interpretation. <strong>David:</strong> That sounds a lot like what Tennessee had up until a few days ago. <strong>Eseell:</strong> What does Arizona have to say about BAC/intoxication levels? <strong>Aaron:</strong> Let me know if you can dig up the chapter and verse on it. <strong>Sean:</strong> Given that I am writing from Tennessee (#7), and you from Pennsylvania (#20), you might want to be careful with that <a href="http://www.mercatus.org/uploadedFiles/Mercatus/Publications/Freedom%20in%20the%2050%20States.pdf" rel="nofollow">high horse</a>. That said, is there no mention at all, anywhere, in any code, of whether or not intoxication while carrying is illegal? I find that somewhat surprising. <strong>Joe:</strong> Idaho also falls under the fast-and-loose definition heading... states definitely like those in laws, with good reason, I suppose. <strong>All:</strong> Thanks for the input. I am specifically looking for states like Nevada, Louisiana, and Utah where carry is legal so long as you are below a 0.0# BAC, but this all was quite useful as well. Expect a post on this tomorrow or soon thereafter. Weer’d: MA’s laws on the topic are whacky… seem to boil down to “you could be in trouble if your BAC is 0.08 or higher or the arresting officer can convince the court you were intoxicated”. Not something I would want to test.
Bob: Yeah, Texas seems to fall under the same heading of strict definition plus situational interpretation.
David: That sounds a lot like what Tennessee had up until a few days ago.
Eseell: What does Arizona have to say about BAC/intoxication levels?
Aaron: Let me know if you can dig up the chapter and verse on it.
Sean: Given that I am writing from Tennessee (#7), and you from Pennsylvania (#20), you might want to be careful with that high horse.
That said, is there no mention at all, anywhere, in any code, of whether or not intoxication while carrying is illegal? I find that somewhat surprising.
Joe: Idaho also falls under the fast-and-loose definition heading… states definitely like those in laws, with good reason, I suppose.
All: Thanks for the input. I am specifically looking for states like Nevada, Louisiana, and Utah where carry is legal so long as you are below a 0.0# BAC, but this all was quite useful as well. Expect a post on this tomorrow or soon thereafter.

]]> By: Joe Huffman http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/11/in_search_of_information.html#comment-3877 Joe Huffman Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:57:38 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2251#comment-3877 Washington State law prohibits it in establishment that serve alcohol and have a 21 or older requirement. Washington State law prohibits it in establishment that serve alcohol and have a 21 or older requirement.

]]> By: Joe Huffman http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/11/in_search_of_information.html#comment-3876 Joe Huffman Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:55:12 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2251#comment-3876 In Idaho you can carry in a bar <a href="http://www3.state.id.us/cgi-bin/newidst?sctid=180330002B.K" rel="nofollow">but</a>: <blockquote>18-3302B. CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPONS UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL OR DRUGS. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a concealed weapon on or about his person when intoxicated or under the influence of an intoxicating drink or drug. Any violation of the provisions of this section shall be a misdemeanor.</blockquote> In Idaho you can carry in a bar but:

18-3302B. CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPONS UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL OR
DRUGS. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a concealed weapon on or
about his person when intoxicated or under the influence of an intoxicating
drink or drug. Any violation of the provisions of this section shall be a
misdemeanor.

]]> By: Sean Sorrentino http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/11/in_search_of_information.html#comment-3875 Sean Sorrentino Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:32:04 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2251#comment-3875 Pennsylvania does not have any laws against carrying either in an establishment with an alcohol license, nor does it have any law against drinking or being drunk while in possession of a firearm. here in the free world, we only outlaw things that we want to be illegal. we don't write laws to make things legal. the PA Uniform Firearms Act is here. <a href="http://www.acslpa.org/pa_uniform_firearms_act.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.acslpa.org/pa_uniform_firearms_act.htm</a> note the complete lack of alcohol related laws. Pennsylvania does not have any laws against carrying either in an establishment with an alcohol license, nor does it have any law against drinking or being drunk while in possession of a firearm. here in the free world, we only outlaw things that we want to be illegal. we don’t write laws to make things legal. the PA Uniform Firearms Act is here.
http://www.acslpa.org/pa_uniform_firearms_act.htm
note the complete lack of alcohol related laws.

]]> By: Aaron http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/11/in_search_of_information.html#comment-3874 Aaron Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:56:00 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2251#comment-3874 I can dig up cites later, but in WA you can carry in any establishment or portion thereof that isn't age-restricted due to alcohol sales. So you can carry in Denny's, as long as you don't go into the lounge. As far as alcohol consumption, I've been TOLD that it's the same legal limit as for driving (0.08), but I don't drink when I carry so I've never bothered to look it up. I can dig up cites later, but in WA you can carry in any establishment or portion thereof that isn’t age-restricted due to alcohol sales. So you can carry in Denny’s, as long as you don’t go into the lounge.
As far as alcohol consumption, I’ve been TOLD that it’s the same legal limit as for driving (0.08), but I don’t drink when I carry so I’ve never bothered to look it up.

]]> By: Eseell http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/11/in_search_of_information.html#comment-3873 Eseell Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:05:35 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2251#comment-3873 David, I'm not sure where you're getting the 40% thing from. In AZ you can carry concealed in any establishment with a liquor license as long as it isn't posted "no guns," no matter the type of liquor license. <a href="http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/1r/laws/0175.htm" rel="nofollow">Here is the appropriate bill.</a> Anyway, it does specifically prohibit the consumption of alcohol while armed. David, I’m not sure where you’re getting the 40% thing from. In AZ you can carry concealed in any establishment with a liquor license as long as it isn’t posted “no guns,” no matter the type of liquor license. Here is the appropriate bill. Anyway, it does specifically prohibit the consumption of alcohol while armed.

]]> By: David, Chandler, AZ http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/11/in_search_of_information.html#comment-3872 David, Chandler, AZ Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:51:55 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2251#comment-3872 Sorry, hit enter too soon. If a restaurant does not serve alcohol then you may carry open or concealed. In addition a restaurant that serves alcohol may post a sign prohibiting carrying a gun. The sign must be a standard sign as specified in the law. Sorry, hit enter too soon.
If a restaurant does not serve alcohol then you may carry open or concealed.
In addition a restaurant that serves alcohol may post a sign prohibiting carrying a gun. The sign must be a standard sign as specified in the law.

]]> By: David, Chandler, AZ http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/11/in_search_of_information.html#comment-3871 David, Chandler, AZ Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:47:06 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2251#comment-3871 In Arizona you may carry concealed only in a restaurant that serves alcohol. You may not drink. A restaurant must derive at least 40% of it's income from food service. If a restaurant does not serve alcohol I'll look up related laws for carrying while intoxicated. In Arizona you may carry concealed only in a restaurant that serves alcohol.
You may not drink.
A restaurant must derive at least 40% of it’s income from food service.
If a restaurant does not serve alcohol
I’ll look up related laws for carrying while intoxicated.

]]> By: Bob S. http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/11/in_search_of_information.html#comment-3870 Bob S. Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:41:30 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2251#comment-3870 Linoge, Here are the applicable sections of the Texas Penal Code. Not sure if this is what you want: § 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed. § 49.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter: (1) "Alcohol concentration" means the number of grams of alcohol per: (A) 210 liters of breath (B) 100 milliliters of blood (C) 67 milliliters of urine (2) "Intoxicated" means (A) not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body; or (B) having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more. Linoge,
Here are the applicable sections of the Texas Penal Code. Not sure if this is what you want:
§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER.
(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while
intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the
authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless
of whether the handgun is concealed.
§ 49.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(1) “Alcohol concentration” means the number of grams of alcohol per:
(A) 210 liters of breath
(B) 100 milliliters of blood
(C) 67 milliliters of urine
(2) “Intoxicated” means
(A) not having the normal use of mental or
physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body; or
(B) having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or
more.

]]> By: Weer'd Beard http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/11/in_search_of_information.html#comment-3869 Weer'd Beard Tue, 24 Nov 2009 07:47:15 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2251#comment-3869 I wonder if Vermont even HAS a law on carrying while intoxicated, as they don't appear to have ANY laws on carrying at all. Maine and New Hampshire are also non-permitted open carry states, and permitted concealed carry. Both allow carry in bars and restaurants (tho there is a bit of a confusing law that I might have to re-read where a Maine "BAR" *I believe it's one of the 51% jobs* can post a "No Weapons" sign on the front door and make it a felony to carry, but ONLY bars, and ONLY if posted is my understanding) If I have a spare moment tonight I'll see if I can dig them up for you. I wonder if Vermont even HAS a law on carrying while intoxicated, as they don’t appear to have ANY laws on carrying at all.
Maine and New Hampshire are also non-permitted open carry states, and permitted concealed carry. Both allow carry in bars and restaurants (tho there is a bit of a confusing law that I might have to re-read where a Maine “BAR” *I believe it’s one of the 51% jobs* can post a “No Weapons” sign on the front door and make it a felony to carry, but ONLY bars, and ONLY if posted is my understanding)
If I have a spare moment tonight I’ll see if I can dig them up for you.

]]> By: Weer'd Beard http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/11/in_search_of_information.html#comment-3868 Weer'd Beard Tue, 24 Nov 2009 07:41:54 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2251#comment-3868 Mass Allows permitted Conceal carry and open carry. (Note that permit CAN and has been revoked for lawful open carry due to our discretionary laws) No law that prohibits carry in any establishment (posted or not) besides schools, and federal buildings. Found this little number that should make your digging a bit easier: <a href="http://www.attorneycohen.com/FIREARMS%20NEWSLETTER%20june%20revised.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.attorneycohen.com/FIREARMS%20NEWSLETTER%20june%20revised.pdf</a> Mass Allows permitted Conceal carry and open carry. (Note that permit CAN and has been revoked for lawful open carry due to our discretionary laws)
No law that prohibits carry in any establishment (posted or not) besides schools, and federal buildings.
Found this little number that should make your digging a bit easier:
http://www.attorneycohen.com/FIREARMS%20NEWSLETTER%20june%20revised.pdf

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