Comments on: worth what you pay for it http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/worth_what_you_pay_for_it.html defending our rights from the ramparts Sat, 11 Feb 2012 19:20:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: walls of the city http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/worth_what_you_pay_for_it.html#comment-3474 walls of the city Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:23:35 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2084#comment-3474 <strong>backpacks to go</strong> I know we mentioned her before at this weblog, but Survival Mom is having a give-away over at her weblog, and while I certainly do not want to detrimentally affect my own partciular chances of winning, it is probably also... backpacks to go

I know we mentioned her before at this weblog, but Survival Mom is having a give-away over at her weblog, and while I certainly do not want to detrimentally affect my own partciular chances of winning, it is probably also…

]]> By: Linoge http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/worth_what_you_pay_for_it.html#comment-3473 Linoge Fri, 16 Oct 2009 17:31:10 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2084#comment-3473 Good to hear I have not managed to offend somewhere :). As for the holster, inside-the-waistband is a good way to go, however, what material is it made of? Nylon holsters have a nasty habit of doing exactly what you described unless they are designed specifically for the firearm you are carrying, or have special liners, or have the strap you mentioned. Actually, any holster that is not specifically designed for the firearm in question might be suspected of doing such things. They might be a little expensive, but I thoroughly recommend custom-made leather holsters, like from <a href="http://www.hbeleatherworks.com/" rel="nofollow">HBE Leatherworks</a> or <a href="http://www.littlebearholsters.com/" rel="nofollow">Little Bear Holsters</a>, though COTS solutions work quite well for some people too (again, if they are made for your gun, and not just any gun of that size). As for the P22... well, even match-grade .22 ammunition is not known for being head-of-a-pin accurate out of non-target-grade pistol-length barrel. Apart from that, though, the cause could be anything, but practice (especially guided practice) will definitely help most non-equipment problems. And I do not think anyone will tell you that you are going wrong with a Glock 19, though bear in mind the size difference might throw you to begin with :). Good to hear I have not managed to offend somewhere :) .
As for the holster, inside-the-waistband is a good way to go, however, what material is it made of? Nylon holsters have a nasty habit of doing exactly what you described unless they are designed specifically for the firearm you are carrying, or have special liners, or have the strap you mentioned. Actually, any holster that is not specifically designed for the firearm in question might be suspected of doing such things. They might be a little expensive, but I thoroughly recommend custom-made leather holsters, like from HBE Leatherworks or Little Bear Holsters, though COTS solutions work quite well for some people too (again, if they are made for your gun, and not just any gun of that size).
As for the P22… well, even match-grade .22 ammunition is not known for being head-of-a-pin accurate out of non-target-grade pistol-length barrel. Apart from that, though, the cause could be anything, but practice (especially guided practice) will definitely help most non-equipment problems.
And I do not think anyone will tell you that you are going wrong with a Glock 19, though bear in mind the size difference might throw you to begin with :) .

]]> By: TheSurvivalMom http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/worth_what_you_pay_for_it.html#comment-3472 TheSurvivalMom Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:35:16 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2084#comment-3472 <b>Linoge:</b> I haven't taken any of these comments or your post on my blog as criticism. On the contrary, I love talking about guns and getting others' opinions. The holster I'm using is a clip on that fits inside the waistband. It does not have any type of strap that goes across the grip. It's just there. I like it because it's very non-bulky. In fact, I'm not crazy about the P22. For some reason, I'm not as accurate with it as I am with the .357. I need to get some more coaching from one of the instructors at our shooting range. I may start carrying the Glock 19 instead. Linoge: I haven’t taken any of these comments or your post on my blog as criticism. On the contrary, I love talking about guns and getting others’ opinions. The holster I’m using is a clip on that fits inside the waistband. It does not have any type of strap that goes across the grip. It’s just there. I like it because it’s very non-bulky.
In fact, I’m not crazy about the P22. For some reason, I’m not as accurate with it as I am with the .357. I need to get some more coaching from one of the instructors at our shooting range. I may start carrying the Glock 19 instead.

]]> By: Linoge http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/worth_what_you_pay_for_it.html#comment-3471 Linoge Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:51:17 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2084#comment-3471 <strong>Mike W.:</strong> Forgot about feeding and firing problems with .22s... It is definitely true that different firearms tend to prefer different flavors of .22, even so far as different firearms of the same make and model preferring different ammunition. To be sure, different ammo can perform better or worse in centerfire handguns, but short of feeding and cycling problems in semi-automatic platforms, they do not suffer from the same oddities as rimfire. <strong>TheSurvivalMom/Lisa:</strong> I guess I should apologize for being a little long-winded... When I get going, my brain keeps finding new and different things to talk about, and it can be kind of difficult to pull the plug. Sorry about that. Also, please do not take anything I said as a form of "<a href="http://images.google.com/images?q=ur+doin'+it+wrong" rel="nofollow">Ur doin' it wrong!</a>"... I only meant to offer what little insight and advice I have, for what little it may be worth. In all reality, as Mike W. said, I am quite happy you are exercising your rights as a free, law-abiding American citizen, regardless of the specific hardware you choose to employ. Indeed I do remember the first time I started carrying a firearm... In fact, it was just a <a href="http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2008/08/my_first_time.html" rel="nofollow">little over a year ago</a>. Just like you, I wore it around the house a lot before ever going out, just like you, I was concerned about how it would feel and carry, and just like you, I had to come to terms with the fact that I might be forced to defend myself with it. None of those thought processes should be rushed, and carrying a firearm is not something you should do until you are completely comfortable with it. In the same vein, even though I have been carrying concealed for over a year now almost any time I leave the house, I am considering carrying openly in the future, and even though I have procured the holster to do so, I have not actually gone out with it yet. Instead, I have been carrying it around the house, just like with the previous one, to see how it works with my body. We are not going to be effective with hardware we are not comfortable with, and the hardware in question should conform to <em>us</em>, not the other way around. Regarding safeties, most/all modern firearms without manual switch-type safeties still have built-in systems. For example, I carry a PPS, which lacks a positive, manual safety switch. However, it has the Glock-ish trigger safety, as well as an internal striker safety. The former basically means that unless my finger is fully depressing the entire trigger, the gun is not going to go off - believe me, I have tried (out of curiosity, and only after clearing the firearm). The latter basically means that there is a mechanical block keeping the firing pin from striking the bullet's primer until the trigger has been pulled back - in short, the gun will not go off if it is dropped. All the Glocks I am aware of all have the same features, and Springfield Armory's XD line even goes so far as to add a 1911-like grip-safety to that list as well. However, all that said and aside, the real safety is between your ears. For any mid-grade-and-above quality firearm of recent manufacture (and assuming it is not a single-action revolver or something), dropping it will not set it off. Mishandling it (as long as your finger does not go in the trigger guard) will not set it off. In reality, very few things will set it off, short of someone pulling the trigger. And that is your prime safety - never pulling the trigger until you want the gun to fire. Believe me, though, I understand where you are coming from - I have a military training background (complete with the craptacular Beretta M9s and their manual safeties), and the first handgun I purchased had a manual safety. However, once I got comfortable with the idea of my brain being my main safety, I decided the manual switch was no longer really required, and now I simply ensure my finger never goes on the trigger until I want to fire. But, regardless of all this, use whatever is comfortable to you - if you want the switch, keep the switch. I would just recommend practicing with it, and ensuring that it is muscle-memory for you to disengage the switch right after you draw. Speaking of drawing, might I ask what holster you are using? In all honesty, if a firearm can free itself from the holster just due to gravity, you should probably look into a different solution. There is <em>nothing</em> wrong with Sigs, whatsoever... I believe Mike W. swears by them, as do lots of militaries, police forces, and security teams. Good guns, decent prices, and they are pretty nearly indestructible. Kind of affordable H&Ks ;). And there I went being all long-winded again... Hope I did not bore you. Again, please do not read anything I write as me <em>telling</em> you that you <em>should</em> do it this way, and if you are not, you are doing it WRONG!11!!111!. Do what works, for you, and the rest of us may mumble and grumble, but the fact is that "what works" is pretty much the only constant in the firearm community. I do hope you look into a larger-caliber handgun in the future, and I also hope you practice well with your .22 if you decide to keep it, but, regardless, I am still happy that you are carrying, and I congratulate you for making that significant step. You should be proud, and not worry about us arguing about the technical details until you are ready... just wait until you stumble across a "9mm vs. .45" debate. <strong>Bob S.:</strong> Thanks for reminding me to get off my own duff and do the same... :) <strong>Brigid:</strong> No worries! Her blog is actually quite the treasure-trove of family-oriented, low-impact survival methodologies, which definitely work for me (not that I am lazy or anything... of <em>course</em> not...). And I certainly agree - the first step is sometimes the most difficult, and if a .22 is an acceptable beginning firearm, then it is an acceptable beginning firearm. Far better that than to be handed a .578WTF and swear off shooting forever. <strong>Weer'd:</strong> You bring up a good point - while the internal parts and mechanicals are vastly different, to the end user, Glocks and double-action-only revolvers work in much the same way. That said, the revolver's trigger-pull is probably twice that of the Glock, so that functions as kind of a "safety" in and of itself, but not a positive-switch one. Just more material to think about. Mike W.: Forgot about feeding and firing problems with .22s… It is definitely true that different firearms tend to prefer different flavors of .22, even so far as different firearms of the same make and model preferring different ammunition. To be sure, different ammo can perform better or worse in centerfire handguns, but short of feeding and cycling problems in semi-automatic platforms, they do not suffer from the same oddities as rimfire.
TheSurvivalMom/Lisa: I guess I should apologize for being a little long-winded… When I get going, my brain keeps finding new and different things to talk about, and it can be kind of difficult to pull the plug. Sorry about that.
Also, please do not take anything I said as a form of “Ur doin’ it wrong!“… I only meant to offer what little insight and advice I have, for what little it may be worth. In all reality, as Mike W. said, I am quite happy you are exercising your rights as a free, law-abiding American citizen, regardless of the specific hardware you choose to employ.
Indeed I do remember the first time I started carrying a firearm… In fact, it was just a little over a year ago. Just like you, I wore it around the house a lot before ever going out, just like you, I was concerned about how it would feel and carry, and just like you, I had to come to terms with the fact that I might be forced to defend myself with it. None of those thought processes should be rushed, and carrying a firearm is not something you should do until you are completely comfortable with it.
In the same vein, even though I have been carrying concealed for over a year now almost any time I leave the house, I am considering carrying openly in the future, and even though I have procured the holster to do so, I have not actually gone out with it yet. Instead, I have been carrying it around the house, just like with the previous one, to see how it works with my body. We are not going to be effective with hardware we are not comfortable with, and the hardware in question should conform to us, not the other way around.
Regarding safeties, most/all modern firearms without manual switch-type safeties still have built-in systems. For example, I carry a PPS, which lacks a positive, manual safety switch. However, it has the Glock-ish trigger safety, as well as an internal striker safety. The former basically means that unless my finger is fully depressing the entire trigger, the gun is not going to go off – believe me, I have tried (out of curiosity, and only after clearing the firearm). The latter basically means that there is a mechanical block keeping the firing pin from striking the bullet’s primer until the trigger has been pulled back – in short, the gun will not go off if it is dropped. All the Glocks I am aware of all have the same features, and Springfield Armory’s XD line even goes so far as to add a 1911-like grip-safety to that list as well.
However, all that said and aside, the real safety is between your ears. For any mid-grade-and-above quality firearm of recent manufacture (and assuming it is not a single-action revolver or something), dropping it will not set it off. Mishandling it (as long as your finger does not go in the trigger guard) will not set it off. In reality, very few things will set it off, short of someone pulling the trigger. And that is your prime safety – never pulling the trigger until you want the gun to fire.
Believe me, though, I understand where you are coming from – I have a military training background (complete with the craptacular Beretta M9s and their manual safeties), and the first handgun I purchased had a manual safety. However, once I got comfortable with the idea of my brain being my main safety, I decided the manual switch was no longer really required, and now I simply ensure my finger never goes on the trigger until I want to fire. But, regardless of all this, use whatever is comfortable to you – if you want the switch, keep the switch. I would just recommend practicing with it, and ensuring that it is muscle-memory for you to disengage the switch right after you draw.
Speaking of drawing, might I ask what holster you are using? In all honesty, if a firearm can free itself from the holster just due to gravity, you should probably look into a different solution.
There is nothing wrong with Sigs, whatsoever… I believe Mike W. swears by them, as do lots of militaries, police forces, and security teams. Good guns, decent prices, and they are pretty nearly indestructible. Kind of affordable H&Ks ;) .
And there I went being all long-winded again… Hope I did not bore you. Again, please do not read anything I write as me telling you that you should do it this way, and if you are not, you are doing it WRONG!11!!111!. Do what works, for you, and the rest of us may mumble and grumble, but the fact is that “what works” is pretty much the only constant in the firearm community. I do hope you look into a larger-caliber handgun in the future, and I also hope you practice well with your .22 if you decide to keep it, but, regardless, I am still happy that you are carrying, and I congratulate you for making that significant step. You should be proud, and not worry about us arguing about the technical details until you are ready… just wait until you stumble across a “9mm vs. .45″ debate.
Bob S.: Thanks for reminding me to get off my own duff and do the same… :)
Brigid: No worries! Her blog is actually quite the treasure-trove of family-oriented, low-impact survival methodologies, which definitely work for me (not that I am lazy or anything… of course not…). And I certainly agree – the first step is sometimes the most difficult, and if a .22 is an acceptable beginning firearm, then it is an acceptable beginning firearm. Far better that than to be handed a .578WTF and swear off shooting forever.
Weer’d: You bring up a good point – while the internal parts and mechanicals are vastly different, to the end user, Glocks and double-action-only revolvers work in much the same way. That said, the revolver’s trigger-pull is probably twice that of the Glock, so that functions as kind of a “safety” in and of itself, but not a positive-switch one. Just more material to think about.

]]> By: Weer'd Beard http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/worth_what_you_pay_for_it.html#comment-3470 Weer'd Beard Fri, 16 Oct 2009 08:47:25 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2084#comment-3470 SurvivalMom, Another way to think about it is "How comfortable are you with a .357 Revolver?" I find a strange disconnect that somebody will have no issues with a revolver that has no external safeties at all, just an exposed hammer, and a DA trigger. Suddenly toss in a Glock that fuctions nearly the same way once loaded it's a big difference. Of course you should carry what you are most comfortable with (I go on and on about redundant safeties....and then I go strap on a 1911 with an entirely unnecessary grip safety when I go out the door!) But I'd hate to see somebody limit their options just because the industry likes to pitch that somehow a DAO Semi-Auto needs a safety catch of some sort, meanwhile nobody is strapping thumb safeties onto DAO revolvers. SurvivalMom, Another way to think about it is “How comfortable are you with a .357 Revolver?”
I find a strange disconnect that somebody will have no issues with a revolver that has no external safeties at all, just an exposed hammer, and a DA trigger.
Suddenly toss in a Glock that fuctions nearly the same way once loaded it’s a big difference.
Of course you should carry what you are most comfortable with (I go on and on about redundant safeties….and then I go strap on a 1911 with an entirely unnecessary grip safety when I go out the door!) But I’d hate to see somebody limit their options just because the industry likes to pitch that somehow a DAO Semi-Auto needs a safety catch of some sort, meanwhile nobody is strapping thumb safeties onto DAO revolvers.

]]> By: Brigid http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/worth_what_you_pay_for_it.html#comment-3469 Brigid Fri, 16 Oct 2009 08:25:35 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2084#comment-3469 Survival Mom is to be commended for trying, for learning. A .22 is better than nothing but it's not going to stop a whole lot. Get comfortable and work your way up the ammo chain. My personal carry is no less than .40 but I usually carry .45 if I'm in the city. Thanks for the link to a great blog! Brigid at Home on the Range. Survival Mom is to be commended for trying, for learning. A .22 is better than nothing but it’s not going to stop a whole lot.
Get comfortable and work your way up the ammo chain. My personal carry is no less than .40 but I usually carry .45 if I’m in the city.
Thanks for the link to a great blog!
Brigid at Home on the Range.

]]> By: Bob S. http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/worth_what_you_pay_for_it.html#comment-3468 Bob S. Fri, 16 Oct 2009 06:24:18 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2084#comment-3468 SurvivalMom, I can understand about the safety features being important when you first start carrying. I'm at that point myself. I carry a Taurus Millenium Pro because it has an external safety. I can understand also about learning how to go about daily life carrying a firearm. It requires adjustments. I carried around the house for months before I carried it in public. These will never pass completely, but they will lessen. Nor one is questioning any of that....just the effectiveness of the .22 round. I also enjoyed reading your blog and when I get off my duff will add you to my blog roll. Your blog begins a great perspective out. Thanks for sharing online with us. SurvivalMom,
I can understand about the safety features being important when you first start carrying.
I’m at that point myself. I carry a Taurus Millenium Pro because it has an external safety.
I can understand also about learning how to go about daily life carrying a firearm. It requires adjustments.
I carried around the house for months before I carried it in public.
These will never pass completely, but they will lessen.
Nor one is questioning any of that….just the effectiveness of the .22 round.
I also enjoyed reading your blog and when I get off my duff will add you to my blog roll. Your blog begins a great perspective out. Thanks for sharing online with us.

]]> By: TheSurvivalMom http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/worth_what_you_pay_for_it.html#comment-3467 TheSurvivalMom Fri, 16 Oct 2009 02:41:03 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2084#comment-3467 My ears have been burning, so I had to drop by to see what you had to say about me! I completely agree with you that a .22 is not the ideal firearm for concealed carry. You probably remember what it was like when you first began carrying a sidearm, and my goal right now is to become comfortable with the fit AND the reality of carrying a lethal weapon. I have even been carrying around the house just to get used to it. I might try carrying our Glock 19, but I'm a little hesitant because it doesn't have the P22's safety feature. Since I'm still inexperienced, I feel like I need that little added bit of security. The first time I went to the bathroom while carrying -- the P22 fell out of the holster, down my pant leg and landed on my foot. Thank God no one else was in the public restroom at the time because they would have heard me laughing hysterically! LOL BTW, I love, love, love the way the Sig feels in my hands. It's such a solid gun. I told my husband it was my new boyfriend. LOL Thanks, again, for visiting my blog. Lisa My ears have been burning, so I had to drop by to see what you had to say about me! I completely agree with you that a .22 is not the ideal firearm for concealed carry. You probably remember what it was like when you first began carrying a sidearm, and my goal right now is to become comfortable with the fit AND the reality of carrying a lethal weapon. I have even been carrying around the house just to get used to it.
I might try carrying our Glock 19, but I’m a little hesitant because it doesn’t have the P22′s safety feature. Since I’m still inexperienced, I feel like I need that little added bit of security. The first time I went to the bathroom while carrying — the P22 fell out of the holster, down my pant leg and landed on my foot. Thank God no one else was in the public restroom at the time because they would have heard me laughing hysterically! LOL
BTW, I love, love, love the way the Sig feels in my hands. It’s such a solid gun. I told my husband it was my new boyfriend. LOL
Thanks, again, for visiting my blog.
Lisa

]]> By: mike w. http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/worth_what_you_pay_for_it.html#comment-3466 mike w. Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:41:43 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2084#comment-3466 The other issue with carrying a .22 is the chance or misfires with rimfire ammo. That said, I've never had a misfire with CCI Minimags. .22 pistols also tend to be finicky & picky with ammo. Even something in .32ACP would be preferable to .22 Still, I'm glad she carries. The other issue with carrying a .22 is the chance or misfires with rimfire ammo. That said, I’ve never had a misfire with CCI Minimags. .22 pistols also tend to be finicky & picky with ammo.
Even something in .32ACP would be preferable to .22
Still, I’m glad she carries.

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