Comments on: Ur doin it WRONG http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/ur_doin_it_wrong.html defending our rights from the ramparts Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:53:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: walls of the city http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/ur_doin_it_wrong.html#comment-3636 walls of the city Fri, 01 Jan 2010 16:42:18 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2148#comment-3636 <strong>in review</strong> Once again, we are going to look at the performance and statistics of this particular webpage over the last year. Just like the last time we did this, I am going to use Google Analytics data, with the repeated warning... in review

Once again, we are going to look at the performance and statistics of this particular webpage over the last year. Just like the last time we did this, I am going to use Google Analytics data, with the repeated warning…

]]> By: TCK http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/ur_doin_it_wrong.html#comment-3635 TCK Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:33:02 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2148#comment-3635 "Police have enumerated powers that other citizens do not, part of the whole enforcement of the law aspect of their duties." Just because they've been creeping a police state into place doesn't make it right. Under the rule of law, police have no more powers or duties than any other citizen, they just choose to carry them out with far more regularity than a non-LEO citizen. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_Principles" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_Principles</a> 1) The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder. 2) The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon the public approval of police actions. 3) Police must secure the willing co-operation of the public in voluntary observation of the law to be able to secure and maintain the respect of the public. 4) The degree of co-operation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force. 5) Police seek and preserve public favour not by catering to public opinion, but by constantly demonstrating absolute impartial service to the law. 6) Police use physical force to the extent necessary to secure observance of the law or to restore order only when the exercise of persuasion, advice, and warning is found to be insufficient. 7) Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence. 8) Police should always direct their action strictly towards their functions, and never appear to usurp the powers of the judiciary. 9) The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it. “Police have enumerated powers that other citizens do not, part of the whole enforcement of the law aspect of their duties.”
Just because they’ve been creeping a police state into place doesn’t make it right. Under the rule of law, police have no more powers or duties than any other citizen, they just choose to carry them out with far more regularity than a non-LEO citizen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_Principles
1) The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.
2) The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon the public approval of police actions.
3) Police must secure the willing co-operation of the public in voluntary observation of the law to be able to secure and maintain the respect of the public.
4) The degree of co-operation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force.
5) Police seek and preserve public favour not by catering to public opinion, but by constantly demonstrating absolute impartial service to the law.
6) Police use physical force to the extent necessary to secure observance of the law or to restore order only when the exercise of persuasion, advice, and warning is found to be insufficient.
7) Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence. 8) Police should always direct their action strictly towards their functions, and never appear to usurp the powers of the judiciary.
9) The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it.

]]> By: Fenris http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/ur_doin_it_wrong.html#comment-3634 Fenris Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:36:41 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2148#comment-3634 "If it's a legal activity for the cops, why not for we little folk?" Police have enumerated powers that other citizens do not, part of the whole enforcement of the law aspect of their duties. Even if the stated intentions of those two is to effect arrest of criminals, the scope of what they as citizens are legally able to do is much narrower. Hunting or fishing, these guys are still actively choosing to put themselves into contact with criminals. As such, they are inviting the conflict and subsequently lose the legal protection of discharging a firearm in self-defense. At least as far as I understand the laws of that state. “If it’s a legal activity for the cops, why not for we little folk?”
Police have enumerated powers that other citizens do not, part of the whole enforcement of the law aspect of their duties.
Even if the stated intentions of those two is to effect arrest of criminals, the scope of what they as citizens are legally able to do is much narrower.
Hunting or fishing, these guys are still actively choosing to put themselves into contact with criminals. As such, they are inviting the conflict and subsequently lose the legal protection of discharging a firearm in self-defense. At least as far as I understand the laws of that state.

]]> By: wizardpc http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/ur_doin_it_wrong.html#comment-3633 wizardpc Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:13:46 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2148#comment-3633 <i>If it's a legal activity for the cops, why not for we little folk?</i> <a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vigilante" rel="nofollow">Definition of vigilante</a>: One who takes the law into one's own hands. If it’s a legal activity for the cops, why not for we little folk?
Definition of vigilante: One who takes the law into one’s own hands.

]]> By: phssthpok http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/ur_doin_it_wrong.html#comment-3632 phssthpok Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:57:14 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2148#comment-3632 While I in no way condone what he's doing, I have a problem with labeling it as 'vigilantism'. He specifically stated that he was 'fishing' for robbers...not 'hunting them'. The way I see it, hunting involves actively seeking your prey, whereas fishing involves dangling the bait to see if anything bites.....kinda like the cops do with hooker-stings and bait-cars. Hell, I've even heard of instances of cops dressing up like drunk bums in 'bad parts of town' to do the same thing this student is doing...bait a mugger into striking. I doubt those 'bum/cop' plants 'consent' to being assaulted. If it's a legal activity for the cops, why not for we little folk? Again...not that I condone it (for either us OR the cops) but it seems a bit hypocritical to endorse (or at least IGNORE) one party doing it while wagging your finger at another. I'm just sayin'... While I in no way condone what he’s doing, I have a problem with labeling it as ‘vigilantism’.
He specifically stated that he was ‘fishing’ for robbers…not ‘hunting them’.
The way I see it, hunting involves actively seeking your prey, whereas fishing involves dangling the bait to see if anything bites…..kinda like the cops do with hooker-stings and bait-cars. Hell, I’ve even heard of instances of cops dressing up like drunk bums in ‘bad parts of town’ to do the same thing this student is doing…bait a mugger into striking. I doubt those ‘bum/cop’ plants ‘consent’ to being assaulted.
If it’s a legal activity for the cops, why not for we little folk?
Again…not that I condone it (for either us OR the cops) but it seems a bit hypocritical to endorse (or at least IGNORE) one party doing it while wagging your finger at another.
I’m just sayin’…

]]> By: Regolith http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/ur_doin_it_wrong.html#comment-3631 Regolith Sat, 31 Oct 2009 05:39:22 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2148#comment-3631 <i>"I forget the term, but basically if you consent to assault, you can't claim self defense."</i> I believe the term is "mutual combat." “I forget the term, but basically if you consent to assault, you can’t claim self defense.”
I believe the term is “mutual combat.”

]]> By: Kurt Hofmann http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/ur_doin_it_wrong.html#comment-3630 Kurt Hofmann Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:20:25 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2148#comment-3630 <i>Take a gander at the author, Kurt - so far as I know, you and he have not had it out... yet ;).</i> I'll have you know that <i>most</i> people find me very easy to get along with--it's just crabby folks like you who don't like me ;-). Seriously, though--I saw that Students for Concealed Carry on Campus has a <a href="http://concealedcampus.org/stateinfo.php?sid=99&fd=cclaw&name=Washington" rel="nofollow">chapter at University of Washington</a> (5th from the bottom). I'm hoping <i>they'll</i> convince him to approach this a bit more wisely--they would seem the folks to do it. Take a gander at the author, Kurt – so far as I know, you and he have not had it out… yet ;) .
I’ll have you know that most people find me very easy to get along with–it’s just crabby folks like you who don’t like me ;-) .
Seriously, though–I saw that Students for Concealed Carry on Campus has a chapter at University of Washington (5th from the bottom). I’m hoping they’ll convince him to approach this a bit more wisely–they would seem the folks to do it.

]]> By: Linoge http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/ur_doin_it_wrong.html#comment-3629 Linoge Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:28:31 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2148#comment-3629 Take a gander at the author, Kurt - so far as I know, you and he have not had it out... <em>yet</em> ;). Take a gander at the author, Kurt – so far as I know, you and he have not had it out… yet ;) .

]]> By: Kurt Hofmann http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/ur_doin_it_wrong.html#comment-3628 Kurt Hofmann Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:47:40 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2148#comment-3628 You know me, Linoge, and know we tend to cross swords over the "making us look bad" thing, but we're <a href="http://armedandsafe.blogspot.com/2009/10/im-not-much-of-one-for-political.html" rel="nofollow">pretty much agreed</a> on this one. That's not <i>quite</i> enough to make me change my mind ;-). Good post. You know me, Linoge, and know we tend to cross swords over the “making us look bad” thing, but we’re pretty much agreed on this one.
That’s not quite enough to make me change my mind ;-) .
Good post.

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