Comments on: private versus public http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/private_versus_public.html defending our rights from the ramparts Sat, 13 Mar 2010 02:46:15 -0500 hourly 1 By: Linoge http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/private_versus_public.html/comment-page-1#comment-3617 Linoge Tue, 19 Jan 2010 16:58:50 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2145#comment-3617 I am certainly not disagreeing that there are limits as to how a landlord can enter rented property, simply pointing out that the Fourth Amendment simply has no bearing in this particular situation... And if one signs away one's other rights, the first and Second do not either. I am certainly not disagreeing that there are limits as to how a landlord can enter rented property, simply pointing out that the Fourth Amendment simply has no bearing in this particular situation… And if one signs away one’s other rights, the first and Second do not either.

]]> By: divemedic http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/private_versus_public.html/comment-page-1#comment-3616 divemedic Tue, 19 Jan 2010 12:25:56 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2145#comment-3616 I normally wouldn't return to such an old post, but I just got an email pointing me here, because of a comment made by another reader, and it brought your comments to my attention. Please do not think me rude for responding, as it is not my intention to flame or argue, merely to educate. Please read the following to learn more about landlord right of entry: <a href="http://www.tenant.net/Other_Areas/Calif/misc/nffland.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.tenant.net/Other_Areas/Calif/misc/nffland.html</a> Not being familiar with case law in TN on the subject, I can quote TN statute to you (emphasis added): 66-28-513. Remedies for abuse of access. (a) If the tenant refuses to allow lawful access, the landlord may obtain injunctive relief to compel access, or terminate the rental agreement. In either case, the landlord may recover actual damages and reasonable attorney's fees. (b) <b>If the landlord makes an unlawful entry or a lawful entry in an unreasonable manner or makes repeated demands for entry otherwise lawful but which have the effect of unreasonably harassing the tenant, the tenant may obtain injunctive relief to prevent the recurrence of the conduct, or terminate the rental agreement. In either case, the tenant may recover actual damages and reasonable attorney's fees. </b> So it seems that there are limits in TN to the landlord entering your rented premesis. I normally wouldn’t return to such an old post, but I just got an email pointing me here, because of a comment made by another reader, and it brought your comments to my attention.
Please do not think me rude for responding, as it is not my intention to flame or argue, merely to educate. Please read the following to learn more about landlord right of entry:
http://www.tenant.net/Other_Areas/Calif/misc/nffland.html
Not being familiar with case law in TN on the subject, I can quote TN statute to you (emphasis added):
66-28-513. Remedies for abuse of access.
(a) If the tenant refuses to allow lawful access, the landlord may obtain injunctive relief to compel access,
or terminate the rental agreement. In either case, the landlord may recover actual damages and reasonable
attorney’s fees.
(b) If the landlord makes an unlawful entry or a lawful entry in an unreasonable manner or makes repeated
demands for entry otherwise lawful but which have the effect of unreasonably harassing the tenant, the
tenant may obtain injunctive relief to prevent the recurrence of the conduct, or terminate the rental
agreement. In either case, the tenant may recover actual damages and reasonable attorney’s fees.
So it seems that there are limits in TN to the landlord entering your rented premesis.

]]> By: Linoge http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/private_versus_public.html/comment-page-1#comment-3615 Linoge Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:30:25 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2145#comment-3615 <blockquote>one would have to then assume that the landlord can enter your apartment at any time</blockquote> I hate to break it to you, <strong>divemedic</strong>, but <em>he can</em>. In fact, it clearly delineates the specific circumstnaces, in our contract, when representatives of our apartment complex can (and, in fact, <em>will</em>) enter our units. In point of fact, <em>every apartment contract I have signed</em> (and having a military background, that is a couple, in equally-many states) has said something along similar lines. Also, a secondary clarification - I was <em>not</em> drawing parallels between my flag display and owning a firearm, and I made that <em>quite</em> clear in the original post. In fact, I was answering the Representative's question - the apartment complex telling me to take down my flag was a blatant and absolute abridgement of my First Amendment rights. However, if I refused, I would be in breach of the contract <em>I signed</em>, and the apartment complex would be completely within its rights to evict me. And, you know what? I agree with that. I signed the contract, it is my duty to uphold my end of it. If you do not want to retire to TN, that is certainly your call, but it is a fair sight better than probably the majority of the states in the Union. As for the laws in question - guess what: they change. They changed this past year, and they might just change next year. But, hey, if you do not want to be involved in the process, others are willing to take your place.

one would have to then assume that the landlord can enter your apartment at any time

I hate to break it to you, divemedic, but he can. In fact, it clearly delineates the specific circumstnaces, in our contract, when representatives of our apartment complex can (and, in fact, will) enter our units. In point of fact, every apartment contract I have signed (and having a military background, that is a couple, in equally-many states) has said something along similar lines.
Also, a secondary clarification – I was not drawing parallels between my flag display and owning a firearm, and I made that quite clear in the original post. In fact, I was answering the Representative’s question – the apartment complex telling me to take down my flag was a blatant and absolute abridgement of my First Amendment rights. However, if I refused, I would be in breach of the contract I signed, and the apartment complex would be completely within its rights to evict me.
And, you know what? I agree with that. I signed the contract, it is my duty to uphold my end of it.
If you do not want to retire to TN, that is certainly your call, but it is a fair sight better than probably the majority of the states in the Union. As for the laws in question – guess what: they change. They changed this past year, and they might just change next year. But, hey, if you do not want to be involved in the process, others are willing to take your place.

]]> By: divemedic http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/10/private_versus_public.html/comment-page-1#comment-3614 divemedic Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:54:57 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=2145#comment-3614 For your opinion to hold water, one would have to then assume that the landlord can enter your apartment at any time (since he isn't violating your 4A rights) and then allow the police to enter and search, with the apartment being his private property and all. This would mean that a tenant has NO RIGHTS whatsoever. Your flag example holds no water- you were chastised for DISPLAYING a flag, not possessing a flag. If the landlord wants to tell me that I cannot shoot a gun off the balcony, that is comparable to flying a flag. Mere possession of a gun and possession of a flag is more comparable. For example, see how far your landlord gets if he passes a rule banning possession of a Quran, a Torah, or a Bible. I do not agree with this position, and I think that this would not stand up to a court challenge, or at least not in many states. You just convinced me that TN is not the state I want to retire to, especially when this ruling is connected to a 'no guns in parks' rule. For your opinion to hold water, one would have to then assume that the landlord can enter your apartment at any time (since he isn’t violating your 4A rights) and then allow the police to enter and search, with the apartment being his private property and all. This would mean that a tenant has NO RIGHTS whatsoever.
Your flag example holds no water- you were chastised for DISPLAYING a flag, not possessing a flag. If the landlord wants to tell me that I cannot shoot a gun off the balcony, that is comparable to flying a flag. Mere possession of a gun and possession of a flag is more comparable.
For example, see how far your landlord gets if he passes a rule banning possession of a Quran, a Torah, or a Bible.
I do not agree with this position, and I think that this would not stand up to a court challenge, or at least not in many states. You just convinced me that TN is not the state I want to retire to, especially when this ruling is connected to a ‘no guns in parks’ rule.

]]>