So I finally got around to open carrying last night… I promise I will write a post on the hardware involved, but, first, the reaction of those around me…
Wait.
What reaction?
In fact, I went to my local Wal-Mart, got a RedBox movie, strolled around the aisles, picked up some brown sugar and yeast, and headed off to the checkouts, where someone finally said something. I was standing there, waiting in line, and there was a gentleman and lady (I assume husband and wife) one line over and a little back of me discussing the menu of the Subway in our Wal-Mart, when I heard him say, very plainly, “Hey, look, that guy is carrying a gun.” Their conversation paused for a second, then they went right back to discussing the menu. As they got parallel with me in our respective lines (apparently I chose poorly), the gentleman leaned over and asked me if open carry like that was actually permissable. I responded in the affirmative, he disclosed that he had just gotten his handgun carry permit, and we had a short conversation about it. I fault whatever school he attended for his permit class for not explaining that open carry is just as legal as concealed carry (especially since that arrangement keeps you from being arrested for your shirt accidentally riding up too high, like you might be in Florida), but at least I was able to provide a little clarification on the point.
Afterwards, I headed off to a local (and thus very expensive) liquor store, had a lengthy discussion with one of the proprietors concerning the finer merits of 30-30 Tequila versus Jose Cuervo (I decided on the former), and came home.
No screams of horror from the Wal-Mart patrons. No fainting in the aisles. No covering of the children’s eyes. No mass panic. No employees asking me to leave.
No one seemed to notice, and if they did, they did not seem to care. Huh.
One thing is certain, though – outside-the-waistband carry is definitely more comfortable than inside-the-waistband, and certainly easier to get to if you have to. It might not be my preferred method of carry yet, but there is no reason it cannot be an option.
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I would love to be able to Open Carry here in Texas.
Summers in Tennessee can be bad (lived in North Carolina, very similar) but they can be brutal here in Texas.
Open Carry would be more comfortable and put me less at risk.
I’m not concerned about the occasional wind blowing up a cover shirt, I think the law is clear on that. What I’m concerned about is printing through a shirt, especially because it is sweat soaked. Wearing two shirts is something impossible, and wearing a thin cover shirt means I’m open to the charge of failing to properly conceal due to printing.
I wouldn’t Open Carry everywhere, but would like the choice.
Great post. Glad to see that no one freaked out. No cops were called, no pavement tasted.
Do you not realize how much damage you did to the Second Amendment cause by your little stunt? Your open carry probably set us back years. They’ll be canceling Heller because of all the riots and panic you caused. Don’t you know you’re not helping at all?
Oh… wait, that’s just what certain other “pro-gun activists” say, not me. I’m just jealous that I can’t OC here in Florida.
Heh make this a 3rd post from a 3rd state where OC is “Prohibited” (I think you’ve heard the idiosyncrasies of Mass OC)
Good for you! And look at your reaction. Instead of gasps, fears and negative reactions, you got open discussion of firearms in a public place between two strangers.
A similar story came when I was buying a Wii game at the local gamestop. Had my “2nd Amendment: Times Change, people Don’t” T-Shirt
http://tinyurl.com/kw2pwz
Dude behind the counter asked what club I shot at. Nice little discussion. Goes a long way to help show us gunnies are normal people, not the camo-wearing aggressive extremists the anti-freedom types would like to paint us as.
Here, I’ll contribute from a 4th state (Arkansas) where it’s still prohibited.
Congrats for actually having, and practicing, the rights of a free man (and woman, since I don’t know you and don’t want to assume).
Maybe someday we will all be able to do everything that the founding documents already tell us we can do anyway. Until then, remember that some of us can’t.
wa wa wa WHAT???!?!?!?
You open carried? Call the press!! Call the AG Call…
oh wait, no one really went into PSH over this. Good for you.
The 30-30 looks like a better choice than any of the Cuervo gun-cleaning fluids. If you want to find out the merits of Tequila start with a brand called Partida.
Sounds like as fun night-out!
repeat offender
Well, I did it again… I went and threatened all of that progress we have been making on preserving the rights protected by the Second Amendment by openly carrying during my errands around town. Today’s jaunt took us to Bliss…
Bob S.: It still blows my mind that open carry is not legal in Texas… Tennessee really is not that bad about firearms, especially now that carrying into restaurants is legal. NFA, carry, purchasing – all of that is pretty much good to go here (aside from a stupid additional tax they slap on ammunition).
. Hm. I wonder if we could push through national open carry easier than concealed carry…
And while we have gotten into damn-near winter here already, I can definitely see the merits of open carry in the summer – that leather surely does not help when it is 100 and 100% humidity out. Of course, now that we are really fraking cold up here, having one less layer to dig through to get to my firearm also counts as a bonus in my book.
But no, no cops, no pavement, no freak-outs, no nothing, really. So much for the supposed horrors involved.
Robb: D’oh. Guess that just… slipped my mind, it did. I can just hear all those pens of all those horrified people writing their respective representatives to get the evil open carry legislation repealed…
Wait, no, no I cannot.
I have to admit, Florida’s rules about “open” (even accidentally-open) carry are pretty damned totalitarian… I guess it gives you something to work on, though.
Weer’d: Yeah… MA is in a category by itself, unfortunately. And while it should not be a strange and unusual thing for two strangers to discuss the finer points of certain aspects of owning and carrying firearms, sadly, it is… And it is incumbent upon us to try and change that sad truth.
The “normal” bit is exactly why I am embarking on this little exercise, though… With my increasingly-long hair and sideburns, I may not be 100% normal, but I am not exactly the knuckle-dragging, cammo-wearing, beer-gut-swinging neanderthal certain anti-rights advocates would paint us all as.
Anonymous: Sucks about Arkansas… But, then again, that gives you something to work for as well (I am not trying to be flippant about that comment, but specific causes to harass your duly-elected representatives about are always good things – they need to be reminded we exist).
And that “someday” is definitely the ideal situation… Maybe we will live to see it
Top of the Chain: Thanks! I have to admit, the complete and utter lack of pants-shitting hysterics, fainting in the aisles, screaming and running for the hills, mass stampeding, or really any reaction at all was kind of a downer. Guess I will have to get over it, at this rate…
Dirtcrashr: 30-30 actually advertises being 100% Agave, which seems to be the bare minimum for “good” tequila (if such a thing exists), and it was not too bad in the pamaritas I made last night, so I guess that works. Cuervo… well, is just a name. I will have to keep an eye out for Partida, but our hillbilly liquor stores never had much of a selection of tequila, and in this market, that selection has only diminished…
Welcome to the club, as it were! I’m glad your first OC experience was a good one.
Bob S., I agree it’s dum we can’t OC here. My answer to that dilemma is one word: Kel-tec. Sure it’s not as much SHAZAM! as a 1911, but it’s way better than a sharp stick.
Congratulations!
I OC’d consistently for about three months before I had my first negative encounter. I ws shopping with my kids for halloween costumes in Wally world and another customer called the police. The local PD were pretty respectful, although the first officer on the scene had no idea that OC was legal with a permit. The shift super knew the law, and they ran my permit, told the complainant that I was doing nothing wrong, and tried to lecture me on the tactical superiority of concealed carry. I respectfully disagreed, and invited them to get a cup of coffee when they were off duty and talk about the relative merits – my treat. They never took me up on it.
Make sure you have a voice recorder on and running when you OC. No need for someone to feel threatened and claim that you were brandishing or threatening them and having it come down to your word against theirs.
Good luck, and have fun!
Respectfully,
Pol
For the record, I don’t think people open carrying, going about the court of an ordinary routine in their daily lives, is damaging to the movement. Most people don’t notice, and those that do, probably assume you have some reason to carry relating to your profession. I doubt very many people are so hysterical at the sight of a firearm that they will visibly freak out.
That’s vastly different than going to your local city council meeting openly armed, with media present, or going some place where you’re almost guaranteed to get a reaction. I don’t think people need to stop open carrying altogether, but that one should exercise some discretion in situations where you’re more likely to attract unwanted attention to yourself. If the goal is to get people used to the idea that carrying a gun is normal, attracting attention makes it automatically fall outside that set.
Eseell: Thanks! I am rather thankful for the non-event it was, as well, not to mention for the opportunity to educate one of my fellow firearm enthusiasts.
. 99% of the time, it will be a waste of time, but that one instance where it boils down to he-said-she-said, that little thing will probably be worth its weight in gold. I have already printed out a copy of the Attorney General’s decision on open vs. concealed carry, and that rides around in my wallet, so at least I can hand that over in case the police officer has some confusion on the issue (as politely and respectfully as possible, of course). As for the merits of open vs. carry, you handled the situation about as well as anyone could… The opinions of police officers are just that, and while they may be backed by more experience, they carry no more legal weight than anyone else’s opinions.
Vote For David: Though your comment was not addressed to me, I will have to admit you lost me somewhere along the way… Does Texas allow for loaded long-gun carry?
Pol: I definitely need to procure a voice recorder to start carrying around with me, in addition to figuring out where it is going to go
Sebastian: Great. So what happens when the sets of “ordinary rourtine in their daily lives” and “local city council meeting” intersect? After all, it is fairly safe to assume that there exist open carriers who are sufficiently interested in the goings-on of their respective city councils that they actually manage to make it to more than a few meetings a month… So what would you have them do? Disarm themselves, simply because you frown upon the media giving attention to law-abiding citizens exercising their rights? Hide their firearms for fear of scaring the white folks? GIve me a break.
Make no doubt – I would absolutely disagree with an open carrier getting in the face of a news crew and forcibly showing off the fact that he is armed, and that is not at all what I am proposing or supporting. But simply showing up and existing in a law-abiding, concerned-citizen manner? Again – give me a break.
Thank you, Captain Obvious. And what course of action is actually going to propagate the idea that openly carrying a firearm is normal? (1) Hiding said firearm whenever someone happens to look at it funny or tape it with a camera, or (B) simply openly carrying it wherever you go (within the bounds of the law, of course), whatever happens, and answering questions as best and as politely as you can. The definition of “normality” is not going to change until we make it change, and that has never happened, in the entire record of history, by simply sitting on your hands, or, even worse, hiding when the spotlight happens to be on you. We are already outside of the publicly-accepted, media-enforced definition of “normal” by daring to own firearms and havin the gall to not only exercise, but also defend, our rights – if some people are willing to publicly embrace that fact, more power to them.
But, then again, I guess the Norfolk 17* should have simply continued going to their original, segregated schools – after all, Lord knows we do not want to rock the boat… I know I stood up for you in the past, but I am really starting to understand some of the things folks said about your deportment at the 2A Blog Bash.
(* – Analogy chosen due to your inability to look past the legal aspects of the actions of Rosa Parks, which, in this particular analogous situation, are completely irrelevant – the “public relations” element is exactly the same (and the public opinion is what created those laws to begin with), and what the analogy more-specifically addresses.)
Great. So what happens when the sets of “ordinary rourtine in their daily lives” and “local city council meeting” intersect?
There are just some situations where if you’re trying to make a point, both to city council, and to the media who report goings on to the town folk, you’re going to have an easier time getting your message across by going concealed. If you still want to carry in those situations, I’m not going to tell you not to, but the message you’re trying to carry is going to be diluted by the gun openly displayed on your hip. That’s not going to be true in all cases, but if the topic at hand isn’t open carry, it will be.
Note I am not advocating “sitting on your hands.” But I don’t agree that open carry is a remarkably effective form of political activism. If you want to do it, that’s your right, but what I’m essentially advocating is for people to view open carry for what it is, which is one tool in the arsenal of tactics that we can use against our opponents. If you’re not into all that, and just want to open carry, I could care less. But if you want to do it because you think it’s the greatest public relations tactic since the Civil Rights Movement, I’m going to disagree with that. I wont’ repeat what I’ve already said in terms of why, but I just don’t think he practice gives people enough context to accept it and understand it.
Ahh, and just because a situation will be made “easier”, law-abiding citizens should be willing to give up their rights, and you feel perfectly vindicated in advocating such an abandonment.
I have to admit, it is rather interesting watching you go through the necessary contortions of redefining your own statements on the fly – I will ask again, in slightly plainer language: if a person routinely and regularly openly carries in his normal routine of life, and also regularly and routinely goes to city council meetings, why should he abandon what he does in the “ordinary routine of his daily life” just because he happens to be a concerned citizen?
You, yourself, said that open carrying in normal life is acceptable, so why do the rules change suddenly when you want them to? And if a law-abiding person is performing a lawful action in a peaceful and polite manner, then, really, what is your problem with the spotlight being shined on him/her? That individual should be held up as an example, not shuffled off into a closet and never again spoken of.
Additionally, I will reiterate my other question: if open carry is not currently normal (a point I agree with you on), and if the idea of open carrying being normal is something you would approve of (an assumption on my part), then what, exactly, do you propose people do in order to get from point A to point B?
Great – given that I cannot think of anyone who does not hold that opinion, I guess your work here is done. The only difference is, certain people do not see open carry exclusively and only as a self-defense tactic.
Fine. Then do not do it. However, disparaging those who do choose to open carry in potentially politically-active situations, and proposing that they should “keep it in their pants” (so to speak) is taking a page from the book of the anti-rights folks, and you should definitely know better. This is especially true considering that you have absolutely no facts, no evidence, no hard information of any variety concerning how the public, on average, has been viewing law-abiding citizens showing up to things like city council meetings while armed. Oh, sure, we have all seen the knee-jerk reaction from the usual suspects, but from Mom and Dad Jones? Not so much. I am going to have to go with Robb and demand evidence to support your opinion, given you are the one proposing limitations (“voluntary” or not) on other people based on your own personal opinion.
No, you are advocating something worse – that people should be willing to give up their rights when it is politically expedient… for you. You will have to forgive me if I find that particular stance to be intrinsically distasteful.
Ahh, and just because a situation will be made “easier”, law-abiding citizens should be willing to give up their rights, and you feel perfectly vindicated in advocating such an abandonment.
It’s perfectly lawful for me to open carry at a trade show, but would I be abandoning my rights by going concealed at a trade show? I’m saying, just because it’s your right, doesn’t’ mean it’s a good idea, and doesn’t mean it’s effective.
It’s my right to go to work with torn jeans, blue hair, and a goatee, but that doesn’t mean doing so would be a wise career move for me, unless I worked at a music store (context).
There are many things in life that are rights, that we choose to exercise discretion with because of what others will think about certain behavior in certain contexts.
And as far as proof, how about I propose this. Next time you’re in a group of people who aren’t gun owners, or really all that associated with the issue, but who you feel comfortable talking to, ask them what they would think if they saw a person who is not a cop carrying a firearm openly in public? If you want to be bolder, why not survey random people in a public place and ask them about what they think about it? My contention is that most people are going to give you a negative response.
If we were talking about you, we would not be having this conversation, Sebastian. If you had phrased your original disagreement with this whole shindig as “I would not” as opposed to “you should not”, you would have heard nary a peep out of me.
What works for you might not work for someone else. What works for someone else might not work for you. Who are you to be grand arbiter of it all, and decide what is and is not effective/a Good Idea (TM) in all cases?
Do not worry – based on your previous history of not answering questions in this thread, I will not hold my breath on that one either.
Fail. You are the one proposing that people should change their behaviors based on your opinion and your opinion alone. You are the one exhorting people to limit themselves and their actions on your whim. The onus, the burden of proof, is on you, not me. Get back to me when you have something concrete to show.
My opinion is based on my experience talking about the issue to people who aren’t intimately involved in it. Most people who are not gun activists don’t understand why someone would carry a gun everywhere, let alone why someone would carry a gun openly everywhere. Even most people who carry concealed don’t understand why someone would want to attract attention to themselves with open carry, even though many of them will agree that you have a right to do it.
That doesn’t make it an open and shut case for my opinion, but until someone does serious surveys or focus groups on the topic, we’re all just talking based on our experience, really. I am also not attempting to control your behavior. I can’t, and wouldn’t presume to stop you from open carrying. That’s an entirely different thing than telling you that in my opinion open carry is not effective activism.
And that is exactly the point, Sebastian – we are already the outsiders, we are already not “normal”, we are already not accepted as commonplace, we are already not understood.
Hiding in the dark is never going to change that. But, if you are fine with the status quo, more power to you.
That may be what you think you are saying, but let me tell you this: you are coming across as saying something entirely different. Every time the topic has come up, you have done damn near everything in your power to denigrate, demean, and diminish those who dared to have the gall to exercise their rights while happening to be on the small screen for a few seconds. That is not expressing your opinion – that is trying to coerce other people through emtional and, so far, factually lacking attacks.
You are right – saying that you do not agree with what someone is doing is, indeed, one thing. But coming out swinging at the person, worrying and fretting over what the person is doing to “the cause” (how ironic, that you just wrote a post on just this topic, and you are just as guilty of it as everyone else supposedly is), and otherwise engaging in attacking, offensive tactics is not ‘expressing your opinion’ – it is something else entirely.
As I said before, if you do not want to open carry, do not open carry. If you want to express your opinions as to why you do not want to, feel free. But the second you start telling people what they should and should not do, you lose any inherent high ground you might have had, especially given that, in the end, you have no better understanding of what this might or might not do for the cause than anyone else.
Methinks people not “intimately involved” in the process of getting the Norfolk 17 into their schools might have been firmly opposed to it as well.
Open carry as a political statement