Comments on: taking it public http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/08/taking_it_public.html defending our rights from the ramparts Sat, 11 Feb 2012 18:52:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Linoge http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/08/taking_it_public.html#comment-3037 Linoge Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:31:10 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=1857#comment-3037 <strong>Chris</strong>: Hell of a post there. Thanks for pointing it out - it brings up a lot of good points, and a lot of things that definitely need to be thought about, considered, and studied. I agree on the heresay problem... No matter where you go, if you start looking into open carry issues, you will find no shortage of stories about people hearing about other people being selectively targeted, or being somehow disarmed, but I still cannot find a single first-person account, news report, or anything of the like concerning those events. I would certainly be interested if someone could dig some up - learning from them might be invaluable. <strong>Randy</strong>: Outstanding point, that... Considering the almost-celebration the Brady Bunch throws every time a gun owner is victimized by thieves or robbers, one would think they would do the same thing for a news report of a gun-carrying citizen being disarmed/selectively attacked. Heh, the self-confidence factor is definitely something I am going to have to work on... Granted, I am a hell of a lot better than I was, but "command presence" was something I never managed to pick up during my years in the military... It is interesting, at least to me, that open carrying requires almost as much though, preparation, and consideration as carrying in general did. Definitely not something to be undertaken lightly, in both cases. Chris: Hell of a post there. Thanks for pointing it out – it brings up a lot of good points, and a lot of things that definitely need to be thought about, considered, and studied.
I agree on the heresay problem… No matter where you go, if you start looking into open carry issues, you will find no shortage of stories about people hearing about other people being selectively targeted, or being somehow disarmed, but I still cannot find a single first-person account, news report, or anything of the like concerning those events. I would certainly be interested if someone could dig some up – learning from them might be invaluable.
Randy: Outstanding point, that… Considering the almost-celebration the Brady Bunch throws every time a gun owner is victimized by thieves or robbers, one would think they would do the same thing for a news report of a gun-carrying citizen being disarmed/selectively attacked.
Heh, the self-confidence factor is definitely something I am going to have to work on… Granted, I am a hell of a lot better than I was, but “command presence” was something I never managed to pick up during my years in the military…
It is interesting, at least to me, that open carrying requires almost as much though, preparation, and consideration as carrying in general did. Definitely not something to be undertaken lightly, in both cases.

]]> By: Pol Mordreth http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/08/taking_it_public.html#comment-3036 Pol Mordreth Fri, 21 Aug 2009 08:00:37 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=1857#comment-3036 Oh! I thought you were in the Nashville area. Well, the offer still stands if ever you and your wife come down this way. I OC most of the time in summer and about half the time in winter. My wife only open carries when with me, and then only when she feels like it. She isn't up to getting hassled by the local PD. Of course, they have run my permit enough that now they see me OC and just wave. To me, open carry vs concealed carry is 'whatever works for you', and in certain situations concealed is the better option. I'm more of the type to say just carry! respectfully, Pol Oh! I thought you were in the Nashville area. Well, the offer still stands if ever you and your wife come down this way. I OC most of the time in summer and about half the time in winter. My wife only open carries when with me, and then only when she feels like it. She isn’t up to getting hassled by the local PD. Of course, they have run my permit enough that now they see me OC and just wave.
To me, open carry vs concealed carry is ‘whatever works for you’, and in certain situations concealed is the better option. I’m more of the type to say just carry!
respectfully,
Pol

]]> By: walls of the city http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/08/taking_it_public.html#comment-3040 walls of the city Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:23:02 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=1857#comment-3040 <strong>when the facts do not fit, lie</strong> So this has already made its way completely around the blogosphere and back again, but I figure I might as well add my two cents as well: MSNBC lies. Like I said, two cents. However, there is an explanation. Remember... when the facts do not fit, lie

So this has already made its way completely around the blogosphere and back again, but I figure I might as well add my two cents as well: MSNBC lies. Like I said, two cents. However, there is an explanation. Remember…

]]> By: Linoge http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/08/taking_it_public.html#comment-3035 Linoge Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:13:25 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=1857#comment-3035 Thanks for the offer, Pol! Unfortunately, Smyrna is a little out of the way for me... I am over in the Knoxville region, but if I ever make it out to Nashville, I might have to take you up on it. I had noticed the prevalance of voice recorders in reading through Open Carry Dot Org's forums... Definitely something else I am going to have to look into. Already printed out a copy of the Attorney General's opinion on open/concealed carry, so at least I have that. Thanks for the offer, Pol! Unfortunately, Smyrna is a little out of the way for me… I am over in the Knoxville region, but if I ever make it out to Nashville, I might have to take you up on it.
I had noticed the prevalance of voice recorders in reading through Open Carry Dot Org’s forums… Definitely something else I am going to have to look into. Already printed out a copy of the Attorney General’s opinion on open/concealed carry, so at least I have that.

]]> By: Pol Mordreth http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/08/taking_it_public.html#comment-3034 Pol Mordreth Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:58:13 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=1857#comment-3034 Thanks for the clarification. BTW, I'm an open carrier in Smyrna (or maybe <b>the</b> open carrier in Smyrna). I know how intimidating it can be to OC by yourself for the first time, so if you want to get together for an OC lunch sometime with me just let me know. And buy a voice recorder. there is a raft of discussions over at opencarry.org regarding the various types. Tennessee is a one party consent state, so as long as you are a party to any conversation you can give yourself permission to record the conversation. Respectfully, Pol Thanks for the clarification. BTW, I’m an open carrier in Smyrna (or maybe the open carrier in Smyrna). I know how intimidating it can be to OC by yourself for the first time, so if you want to get together for an OC lunch sometime with me just let me know.
And buy a voice recorder. there is a raft of discussions over at opencarry.org regarding the various types. Tennessee is a one party consent state, so as long as you are a party to any conversation you can give yourself permission to record the conversation.
Respectfully,
Pol

]]> By: Found: One Troll http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/08/taking_it_public.html#comment-3039 Found: One Troll Thu, 20 Aug 2009 00:15:00 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=1857#comment-3039 <strong>Quote of the Day</strong> The recent controversy over open carry reminds me of one of my favorite Barry Goldwater quotes. I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! A... Quote of the Day

The recent controversy over open carry reminds me of one of my favorite Barry Goldwater quotes.
I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!
A…

]]> By: Michael http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/08/taking_it_public.html#comment-3032 Michael Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:28:46 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=1857#comment-3032 While I do not partake in open carry, mostly due to a lack of funds for the lawyer needed here in Georgia for open carry, I do support it. As to this individual open carrying, just not a handgun, but a rifle as well at a political rally...good for him. This is what it is meant to be an American and a free and sovriegn people. While I do not partake in open carry, mostly due to a lack of funds for the lawyer needed here in Georgia for open carry, I do support it.
As to this individual open carrying, just not a handgun, but a rifle as well at a political rally…good for him. This is what it is meant to be an American and a free and sovriegn people.

]]> By: walls of the city http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/08/taking_it_public.html#comment-3038 walls of the city Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:32:44 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=1857#comment-3038 <strong>riding the aftershocks</strong> A few days ago, I copy-pasted something I never thought I would quote, and I figured that might just count as the quote of the year. Amazingly, I was wrong. Armed men seen mixing with protesters outside recent events held... riding the aftershocks

A few days ago, I copy-pasted something I never thought I would quote, and I figured that might just count as the quote of the year. Amazingly, I was wrong. Armed men seen mixing with protesters outside recent events held…

]]> By: Linoge http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/08/taking_it_public.html#comment-3033 Linoge Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:23:14 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=1857#comment-3033 <strong>Eseell:</strong> It is for those very reasons that I am very seriously considering starting open carrying. The fields of carry rights (and firearm rights in general) is going to go absolutely nowhere so long as average citizens do not fully understand who carries - <em>other</em> average citizens, and a lot more than they might think. Right now, we are doing little more than hiding in our gun safes, going to ranges periodically, and carrying our firearms like we have to hide them for some reason. Oh, sure, we have had more than a few judicial and legislative advances in the past few years, and I am quite happy about those, but that is not where the real battle lies - the real fight will be public acceptance. All of the rules, regulations, laws, and legislation in the world will amount to naught if all people see of firearm owners are the whackjobs at the gym, and the Holocaust memorial, and all of the other mass-shooting locations. But, if those same people start seeing average folks at the grocery store, buying milk, and packing a 1911... maybe, just maybe, they will start to accept it. I am still deciding about the whole open carry thing, but I confess that I am definitely starting to lean that way... <strong>Pol:</strong> Sorry about not making that clearer - I was referring specifically to the carrying of an AR-15 and a loaded magazine by the same person in public. That said, we <em>can</em> carry unloaded long guns of all varieties, so long as ammunition for it is nowhere nearby. Of course, I do not think I quite have the balls to test that element of the laws with the local constabulary... <strong>Michael:</strong> The "funds for the lawyer" concern is definitely one of my many regarding open carry... The police officers here are, by and large, relatively aware of the open carry situation, but as ColtCCO's experience proves, not <em>all</em> of them are that enlightened. The open portage of arms is definitely a way of indicating that you are, indeed, a <em>citizen</em> and not a subject, and that is probably the primary complaint the government has with it... Eseell: It is for those very reasons that I am very seriously considering starting open carrying. The fields of carry rights (and firearm rights in general) is going to go absolutely nowhere so long as average citizens do not fully understand who carries – other average citizens, and a lot more than they might think. Right now, we are doing little more than hiding in our gun safes, going to ranges periodically, and carrying our firearms like we have to hide them for some reason.
Oh, sure, we have had more than a few judicial and legislative advances in the past few years, and I am quite happy about those, but that is not where the real battle lies – the real fight will be public acceptance. All of the rules, regulations, laws, and legislation in the world will amount to naught if all people see of firearm owners are the whackjobs at the gym, and the Holocaust memorial, and all of the other mass-shooting locations. But, if those same people start seeing average folks at the grocery store, buying milk, and packing a 1911… maybe, just maybe, they will start to accept it.
I am still deciding about the whole open carry thing, but I confess that I am definitely starting to lean that way…
Pol: Sorry about not making that clearer – I was referring specifically to the carrying of an AR-15 and a loaded magazine by the same person in public. That said, we can carry unloaded long guns of all varieties, so long as ammunition for it is nowhere nearby. Of course, I do not think I quite have the balls to test that element of the laws with the local constabulary…
Michael: The “funds for the lawyer” concern is definitely one of my many regarding open carry… The police officers here are, by and large, relatively aware of the open carry situation, but as ColtCCO’s experience proves, not all of them are that enlightened. The open portage of arms is definitely a way of indicating that you are, indeed, a citizen and not a subject, and that is probably the primary complaint the government has with it…

]]> By: Pol Mordreth http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/08/taking_it_public.html#comment-3031 Pol Mordreth Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:47:21 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=1857#comment-3031 Linoge, When you say "(unlike, say, Tennessee, where such a thing would get you arrested)" are you referring to carrying a rifle or OC at a political rally in general? To the best of my knowledge, the former will get you arrested, but the latter will not. Thanks, Pol Linoge,
When you say “(unlike, say, Tennessee, where such a thing would get you arrested)” are you referring to carrying a rifle or OC at a political rally in general? To the best of my knowledge, the former will get you arrested, but the latter will not.
Thanks,
Pol

]]> By: Eseell http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/08/taking_it_public.html#comment-3030 Eseell Wed, 19 Aug 2009 03:10:30 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=1857#comment-3030 I completely agree. The only way to change the public viewpoint to one where open carry is normal is to carry weapons openly. We can't normalize open carry by pushing concealed carry. The whole point of concealed carry is that you can have your weapon while the entire public remains blissfully unaware - out of sight, out of mind. We get to carry firearms for self-defense and John Q. gets to continue living in a world where <em>no one</em> carries, as far as he can tell. Politically, it's a win-win (unless you're the Brady Campaign). How many non-gun owners in Massachusetts know that regular people (non-LEOs) all around them carry guns? How about in California? Very few, I'll wager, and CCW permits are not too difficult to obtain in some parts of those states. Concealed carry does little to advance the idea that owning and bearing arms is completely normal. Open carry means that the public can't ignore the fact that regular people carry guns every day without succumbing to the evil mind control rays. Open carry gets people talking and thinking about the right to keep and bear arms. If we, the gun activist community, denounce these fellows who open carry at political events as lunatics and disown them we're only going to be hurting ourselves as we cede that battleground to the antis. I completely agree. The only way to change the public viewpoint to one where open carry is normal is to carry weapons openly. We can’t normalize open carry by pushing concealed carry.
The whole point of concealed carry is that you can have your weapon while the entire public remains blissfully unaware – out of sight, out of mind. We get to carry firearms for self-defense and John Q. gets to continue living in a world where no one carries, as far as he can tell. Politically, it’s a win-win (unless you’re the Brady Campaign).
How many non-gun owners in Massachusetts know that regular people (non-LEOs) all around them carry guns? How about in California? Very few, I’ll wager, and CCW permits are not too difficult to obtain in some parts of those states. Concealed carry does little to advance the idea that owning and bearing arms is completely normal.
Open carry means that the public can’t ignore the fact that regular people carry guns every day without succumbing to the evil mind control rays. Open carry gets people talking and thinking about the right to keep and bear arms. If we, the gun activist community, denounce these fellows who open carry at political events as lunatics and disown them we’re only going to be hurting ourselves as we cede that battleground to the antis.

]]>