Comments on: graphics matter http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/07/graphics_matter.html defending our rights from the ramparts Mon, 06 Sep 2010 15:46:22 -0400 hourly 1 By: walls of the city http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/07/graphics_matter.html/comment-page-1#comment-2896 walls of the city Wed, 09 Sep 2009 18:17:59 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=1791#comment-2896 <strong>the truth will always out</strong> I honestly could not bring myself to try and wade through the recent not-really-scientific "study" from the known anti-rights advocate Dr. Garen Wintemute, but BobS did, and made an interesting discovery, straight out of the "study" itself: Americans o... <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2896','walls of the city'); return false;">reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('2896','walls of the city','<strong>the truth will always out<\/strong>\n\nI honestly could not bring myself to try and wade through the recent not-really-scientific \"study\" from the known anti-rights advocate Dr. Garen Wintemute, but BobS did, and made an interesting discovery, straight out of the \"study\" itself: Americans o...\n'); return false;">quote</a></div> the truth will always out

I honestly could not bring myself to try and wade through the recent not-really-scientific “study” from the known anti-rights advocate Dr. Garen Wintemute, but BobS did, and made an interesting discovery, straight out of the “study” itself: Americans o…

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]]> By: walls of the city http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/07/graphics_matter.html/comment-page-1#comment-2895 walls of the city Wed, 26 Aug 2009 06:48:15 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=1791#comment-2895 <strong>just a modicum of effort</strong> Both Say Uncle and Joe Huffman point to Alan Korwin questioning just how many firearms there are in America: The lamestream media has been claiming for years and years there are about 200 million guns in America. With about 100... <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2895','walls of the city'); return false;">reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('2895','walls of the city','<strong>just a modicum of effort<\/strong>\n\nBoth Say Uncle and Joe Huffman point to Alan Korwin questioning just how many firearms there are in America: The lamestream media has been claiming for years and years there are about 200 million guns in America. With about 100...\n'); return false;">quote</a></div> just a modicum of effort

Both Say Uncle and Joe Huffman point to Alan Korwin questioning just how many firearms there are in America: The lamestream media has been claiming for years and years there are about 200 million guns in America. With about 100…

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]]> By: walls of the city http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/07/graphics_matter.html/comment-page-1#comment-2894 walls of the city Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:10:54 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=1791#comment-2894 <strong>more graphics matter</strong> Remember that cute little chart I made disproving the myth of "more guns = more deaths"? Yeah, Reputo went and showed me how it should have been done... in four separate parts, no less. His conclusion? "Gun control" legislation does... <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2894','walls of the city'); return false;">reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('2894','walls of the city','<strong>more graphics matter<\/strong>\n\nRemember that cute little chart I made disproving the myth of \"more guns = more deaths\"? Yeah, Reputo went and showed me how it should have been done... in four separate parts, no less. His conclusion? \"Gun control\" legislation does...\n'); return false;">quote</a></div> more graphics matter

Remember that cute little chart I made disproving the myth of “more guns = more deaths”? Yeah, Reputo went and showed me how it should have been done… in four separate parts, no less. His conclusion? “Gun control” legislation does…

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]]> By: Linoge http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/07/graphics_matter.html/comment-page-1#comment-2891 Linoge Sun, 09 Aug 2009 11:06:01 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=1791#comment-2891 But that is <em>exactly</em> why I chose that metric, Anonymous - when discussing these kinds of things with hoplophobes, anti-rights activists, and other such people, they exhibit a constant desire to count <em>all</em> firearm-related deaths, regardless of whether it was a suicide, an accident, a legal self-defense situation, or police action. As such, I wanted to respond in kind... and I would point out that their argument <em>still</em> fails, even though we give them the benefit of the doubt on numbers. I agree with you that certain sets of numbers really should not be counted... but if I have to do so to more-effectively destroy an anti-rights argument, then I am willing to hold my nose for a few minutes. <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2891','Linoge'); return false;">reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('2891','Linoge','But that is <em>exactly<\/em> why I chose that metric, Anonymous - when discussing these kinds of things with hoplophobes, anti-rights activists, and other such people, they exhibit a constant desire to count <em>all<\/em> firearm-related deaths, regardless of whether it was a suicide, an accident, a legal self-defense situation, or police action. As such, I wanted to respond in kind... and I would point out that their argument <em>still<\/em> fails, even though we give them the benefit of the doubt on numbers.\nI agree with you that certain sets of numbers really should not be counted... but if I have to do so to more-effectively destroy an anti-rights argument, then I am willing to hold my nose for a few minutes.\n'); return false;">quote</a></div> But that is exactly why I chose that metric, Anonymous – when discussing these kinds of things with hoplophobes, anti-rights activists, and other such people, they exhibit a constant desire to count all firearm-related deaths, regardless of whether it was a suicide, an accident, a legal self-defense situation, or police action. As such, I wanted to respond in kind… and I would point out that their argument still fails, even though we give them the benefit of the doubt on numbers.
I agree with you that certain sets of numbers really should not be counted… but if I have to do so to more-effectively destroy an anti-rights argument, then I am willing to hold my nose for a few minutes.

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]]> By: Anonymous http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/07/graphics_matter.html/comment-page-1#comment-2890 Anonymous Sun, 09 Aug 2009 09:30:34 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=1791#comment-2890 Those charts are interesting, but I think the term "firearm related deaths" does not provide enough information. That number may include criminals that died as a result of police action or legal self-defense. I would like to see the firearm related deaths, further broken down by murders, legal self-defense, police action and accidents. My thought is, that legal self-defense and police action should never be used in a chart, to measure gun violence. <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2890','Anonymous'); return false;">reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('2890','Anonymous','Those charts are interesting, but I think the term \"firearm related deaths\" does not provide enough information. That number may include criminals that died as a result of police action or legal self-defense.\nI would like to see the firearm related deaths, further broken down by murders, legal self-defense, police action and accidents. My thought is, that legal self-defense and police action should never be used in a chart, to measure gun violence.\n'); return false;">quote</a></div> Those charts are interesting, but I think the term “firearm related deaths” does not provide enough information. That number may include criminals that died as a result of police action or legal self-defense.
I would like to see the firearm related deaths, further broken down by murders, legal self-defense, police action and accidents. My thought is, that legal self-defense and police action should never be used in a chart, to measure gun violence.

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]]> By: Linoge http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/07/graphics_matter.html/comment-page-1#comment-2889 Linoge Thu, 06 Aug 2009 20:58:34 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=1791#comment-2889 Interesting idea, Billl... I will probably leave those numbers out of this particular graph, simply because I am trying to isolate it to "just the guns", so we do not confuse people trying to muddle out what it means, but those numbers do seem to correlate interestingly. I get the feeling I am going to have to release another edition comparing different sets of data in the future... ;) <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2889','Linoge'); return false;">reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('2889','Linoge','Interesting idea, Billl... I will probably leave those numbers out of this particular graph, simply because I am trying to isolate it to \"just the guns\", so we do not confuse people trying to muddle out what it means, but those numbers do seem to correlate interestingly. I get the feeling I am going to have to release another edition comparing different sets of data in the future... ;)\n'); return false;">quote</a></div> Interesting idea, Billl… I will probably leave those numbers out of this particular graph, simply because I am trying to isolate it to “just the guns”, so we do not confuse people trying to muddle out what it means, but those numbers do seem to correlate interestingly. I get the feeling I am going to have to release another edition comparing different sets of data in the future… ;)

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]]> By: Billll http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/07/graphics_matter.html/comment-page-1#comment-2888 Billll Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:35:15 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=1791#comment-2888 A quick peruse of graphical data suggests there is a better correlation between gun deaths and unemployment. This should be no big surprise, as typically when times are tough, crime goes up. Of course that suggests that this year and next are likely to be bad ones for gun deaths. Of course a shall issue law may drive the death rate down as criminals seek less dangerous MOs, or up as criminals meet armed victims, who knows. I got my data here <a href="http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet?request_action=wh&graph_name=LN_cpsbref3" rel="nofollow">http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet?request_action=wh&graph_name=LN_cpsbref3</a> and here <a href="http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.geoffdavis.net/dartmouth/policy/papers/html/Unemployment.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.geoffdavis.net/dartmouth/policy/papers/html/market.html&h=217&w=499&sz=5&tbnid=orVWO7XpaPAolM:&tbnh=57&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dunemployment%2Bgraph&usg=__L7KGPmWcMZcTgWRCHDdD__-sOek=&ei=dkt6SqjCOIuCtgerifjgAQ&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=4&ct=image" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.geoffdavis.net/dartmouth/policy/papers/html/Unemployment.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.geoffdavis.net/dartmouth/policy/papers/html/market.html&h=217&w=499&sz=5&tbnid=orVWO7XpaPAolM:&tbnh=57&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dunemployment%2Bgraph&usg=__L7KGPmWcMZcTgWRCHDdD__-sOek=&ei=dkt6SqjCOIuCtgerifjgAQ&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=4&ct=image</a> <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2888','Billll'); return false;">reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('2888','Billll','A quick peruse of graphical data suggests there is a better correlation between gun deaths and unemployment. This should be no big surprise, as typically when times are tough, crime goes up.\nOf course that suggests that this year and next are likely to be bad ones for gun deaths.\nOf course a shall issue law may drive the death rate down as criminals seek less dangerous MOs, or up as criminals meet armed victims, who knows.\nI got my data here\n<a href=\"http:\/\/data.bls.gov\/PDQ\/servlet\/SurveyOutputServlet?request_action=wh&graph_name=LN_cpsbref3\" rel=\"nofollow\">http:\/\/data.bls.gov\/PDQ\/servlet\/SurveyOutputServlet?request_action=wh&graph_name=LN_cpsbref3<\/a>\nand here\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.google.com\/imgres?imgurl=http:\/\/www.geoffdavis.net\/dartmouth\/policy\/papers\/html\/Unemployment.gif&imgrefurl=http:\/\/www.geoffdavis.net\/dartmouth\/policy\/papers\/html\/market.html&h=217&w=499&sz=5&tbnid=orVWO7XpaPAolM:&tbnh=57&tbnw=130&prev=\/images%3Fq%3Dunemployment%2Bgraph&usg=__L7KGPmWcMZcTgWRCHDdD__-sOek=&ei=dkt6SqjCOIuCtgerifjgAQ&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=4&ct=image\" rel=\"nofollow\">http:\/\/www.google.com\/imgres?imgurl=http:\/\/www.geoffdavis.net\/dartmouth\/policy\/papers\/html\/Unemployment.gif&imgrefurl=http:\/\/www.geoffdavis.net\/dartmouth\/policy\/papers\/html\/market.html&h=217&w=499&sz=5&tbnid=orVWO7XpaPAolM:&tbnh=57&tbnw=130&prev=\/images%3Fq%3Dunemployment%2Bgraph&usg=__L7KGPmWcMZcTgWRCHDdD__-sOek=&ei=dkt6SqjCOIuCtgerifjgAQ&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=4&ct=image<\/a>\n'); return false;">quote</a></div> A quick peruse of graphical data suggests there is a better correlation between gun deaths and unemployment. This should be no big surprise, as typically when times are tough, crime goes up.
Of course that suggests that this year and next are likely to be bad ones for gun deaths.
Of course a shall issue law may drive the death rate down as criminals seek less dangerous MOs, or up as criminals meet armed victims, who knows.
I got my data here
http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet?request_action=wh&graph_name=LN_cpsbref3
and here
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.geoffdavis.net/dartmouth/policy/papers/html/Unemployment.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.geoffdavis.net/dartmouth/policy/papers/html/market.html&h=217&w=499&sz=5&tbnid=orVWO7XpaPAolM:&tbnh=57&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dunemployment%2Bgraph&usg=__L7KGPmWcMZcTgWRCHDdD__-sOek=&ei=dkt6SqjCOIuCtgerifjgAQ&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=4&ct=image

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]]> By: Linoge http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/07/graphics_matter.html/comment-page-1#comment-2887 Linoge Wed, 05 Aug 2009 22:03:39 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=1791#comment-2887 As I mentioned in the original post, <blockquote>The "Number of Firearms" was a little more tricky, though... I used the lower end of the range hypothesized in the Small Arms Survey of 2003 as my 2003 datapoint (as denoted by the large dot on that line).</blockquote> In essence, everything else on that line is an extrapolation based off that blue dot, either based on the ATF's numbers, or on the Shooting Industry Magazine's numbers. Of course, that said, that particular point is not based on anything better than a UN-funded story that may or may not be accurate. Gotta love guessing :). <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2887','Linoge'); return false;">reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('2887','Linoge','As I mentioned in the original post,\n<blockquote>The \"Number of Firearms\" was a little more tricky, though... I used the lower end of the range hypothesized in the Small Arms Survey of 2003 as my 2003 datapoint (as denoted by the large dot on that line).<\/blockquote>\nIn essence, everything else on that line is an extrapolation based off that blue dot, either based on the ATF\'s numbers, or on the Shooting Industry Magazine\'s numbers. Of course, that said, that particular point is not based on anything better than a UN-funded story that may or may not be accurate. Gotta love guessing :).\n'); return false;">quote</a></div> As I mentioned in the original post,

The “Number of Firearms” was a little more tricky, though… I used the lower end of the range hypothesized in the Small Arms Survey of 2003 as my 2003 datapoint (as denoted by the large dot on that line).

In essence, everything else on that line is an extrapolation based off that blue dot, either based on the ATF’s numbers, or on the Shooting Industry Magazine’s numbers. Of course, that said, that particular point is not based on anything better than a UN-funded story that may or may not be accurate. Gotta love guessing :) .

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]]> By: John Hardin http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/07/graphics_matter.html/comment-page-1#comment-2886 John Hardin Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:47:42 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=1791#comment-2886 ...what does the blue dot in 2003 represent? <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2886','John Hardin'); return false;">reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('2886','John Hardin','...what does the blue dot in 2003 represent?\n'); return false;">quote</a></div> …what does the blue dot in 2003 represent?

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]]> By: Linoge http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/07/graphics_matter.html/comment-page-1#comment-2885 Linoge Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:15:00 +0000 http://www.wallsofthecity.net/?p=1791#comment-2885 I certainly can, once I remember how to accurately do so... For all the prob and stat I had to do in college, I have not had to do a whit of it since, and some of it has slipped... <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2885','Linoge'); return false;">reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('2885','Linoge','I certainly can, once I remember how to accurately do so... For all the prob and stat I had to do in college, I have not had to do a whit of it since, and some of it has slipped...\n'); return false;">quote</a></div> I certainly can, once I remember how to accurately do so… For all the prob and stat I had to do in college, I have not had to do a whit of it since, and some of it has slipped…

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