So, first up, my old spreadsheet of possible concealed carry firearms has been updated. The new spreadsheet is online and is replete with all new collections of models and specifications and details and suchlike. There are a few holes in the data, and if you happen to have the answers yourselves, I would certainly appreciate an email or comment. The discriminating factors for this spreadsheet (and I was discriminatory – deal with it) was semi-automatic, “carryable” (I was somewhat loose with that definition), and 9mm / .40 S&W / .45 ACP calibers. After that, it was just a matter of finding all of the pertinent information, condensing it, and sticking it somewhere.
So, my first request: Link to the spreadsheet (and this post, if you feel so inclined) as much as you can, and get its existence out into the world. This information is a pain in the ass to find (and took all manner of time that I probably did not have, and other people proably do not either), and now that it is in one, central location, a lot of people might be able to benefit from it. So, please, share.
And, in short order, my second request, which is really more of a question: What do you carry as your primary concealed carry weapon? I have been a law-abiding gun owner for about three years now, and a carry permit holder for about half that long. In addition to somehow failing to fly off the handle and murder someone (as some Brady Bunch morons would have you believe that all carry permit holders will eventually do), I have also somehow failed to actually purchase a carry firearm. I can be excused for about a year of that 1.5 years, due to living in Kalifornistan and having a remarkably limited selection of firearms at my disposal. However, now that I am firmly ensconsed in the “patron state of shooting gosse”, that excuse is kind of… gone. And now I am looking for suggestions.
My current leanings? The top three are a Walther PPS, the Springfield Armory XD9 Sub-Compact, and, no surprise, a Glock 26 (ack, ick, poo… darned fanboys make me hate saying that word), all in 9mm. Why 9mm? Well, first, ammunition commonality with my current Baby Eagle. Second, ammunition commonality in general. Yeah, we could go into the whole .45 ACP vs. 9mm debate, but suffice to say that with current self-defense rounds, we can leave that debate for later. Why those guns? Well, for me, concealability is a big thing at the moment… This will be my first carry weapon, and I want to ensure I can actually, you know, conceal it. Also, these are known companies, with known (and generally positive) histories behind them. Additionally, the last two feel good in my hand, assuming I can get a finger-rest for the magazine of the 26. The first, I have not had a chance to try on yet, but hopefully I will soon. Finally, while the Kahrs are slimmer than even the PPS, their only real safety is your finger, which, granted, is all the safety you need, but I am not so sure about that kind of situation myself. Even an arguably-redundant trigger-safety gives me a warm fuzzy I need to be comfortable with the firearm, and comfort is one of the most important factors, as I understand it, for effectively using a firearm.
So, what do you all carry, and what do you propose I purchase? My Florida license is honored here in Tennesse, and Nashville is currently “renewing” it into a Tennessee one, so that is taken care of. Now it is just a matter of hardware, and the carry neophyte in me wants as much information as it can get before it goes and spends a substantial chunk of cash. Humor me, eh?
Update: Thanks to Chris’ reminder, Kel-Tec pistols have been added to the spreadsheet. Also, XDms would as well, if their page did not keep crashing my computer.
Additionally, my entire site is misbehaving at the moment… I think something is wrong with Dreamhost, or their servers. I apologize for difficulties with posting comments, and I would ask you be patient (and if you already have been, thank you). If all else fails, just drop me an email (linoge funny-little-”at”-symbol wallsofthecity.net).
Trackposted to Rosemary’s Thoughts, 123beta, Maggie’s Notebook, Right Truth, Shadowscope, Cao’s Blog, Leaning Straight Up, , Democrat=Socialist, Conservative Cat, Nuke’s, third world county, Allie is Wired, Woman Honor Thyself, McCain Blogs, DragonLady’s World, The World According to Carl, , Pirate’s Cove, The Pink Flamingo, , Dumb Ox Daily News, and Right Voices, thanks to Linkfest Haven Deluxe.
related posts:
caliber research | quantity matters | talk about dissemination |
I had to jump through some serious hoops to register just so that i could comment. first of all, that is a good list, and a good start.
myself, i have the Ruger SR9, and it took a long time to decide what i wanted in a carry gun. that said, you have left out some serious contenders that make very good products. the first being the 1911 style compacts. companies such as Para, Kimber, etc all make very high quality carry pistols, perhaps better in quality than the springfields. the para ordinance 1911 will probably be my next full size pistol purchase in fact.
that said, it seems you also over looked some of the smaller ccw guns… the Keltec guns are loved by their owners. and ruger has their new LCP which i have fired and am very impressed with. i wouldnt rule out the .380 just because of the size of the guns you can get in that caliber. the walther PPK/s also comes to mind and is a gun that i have carried myself.
also, springfield just came out with the XDm which is supposed to be a huge improvement over the XD.
i know i just added a whole mess to your list, but the options i mentioned are good one and you will be happy with any of them should you choose one… what area of TN are you now in, im sure that Uncle can give you better locality pointers than i can as to where to go to fondle some pistols and see what you like…
finally, welcome to a free state, you will like it.
When I’m outside of the People’s Soviet of Illinois, my carry piece is a 9mm Makarov.
I carry an XD40 subcompact most of the time. Other times I carry a hammerless S&W Airweight .38 revolver. If I could only keep one, it would be the Airweight. I’m not too worried about ammo commonality–We own 7 handguns, with 6 different calibers.
The PPS was not available when I bought my carry gun, else it would have been on my short list. I don’t have personal experience, but from what I’ve read, avoid the special “First Edition” model, the rest work well.
I don’t put any faith in the little dongle on the trigger–Anything that will pull the trigger is likely to pull the dongle. My wife’s first carry gun was also an XD, in large part because the grip safety made her more comfortable. She doesn’t carry it much anymore, preferring the minuscule size of the Keltec P3AT that she didn’t want me to buy.
I owned a Kahr P40 for about a week. More malfunctions of more different types than all other guns I’ve shot, combined. I’ve read that the alloy frames and 9’s are better.
(and your comments aren’t working well–Livejournal is my third try–It wouldn’t let me post with OpenID or Typepad ID’s.
Chris: Sorry about the registration hoops… MovableType tries to make it easier with TypePad/LiveJournal/OpenID interaction, but it is still a pain. Blame the spammers, if that makes you feel any better
.
.
. The XDm is annoyingly confined to .40 S&W at the moment… and, while I included that caliber, I am not terribly fond of it due to cost concerns. Either way, I need to add it to the spreadsheet as well. I really need to start reloading…
As for the 1911 frame, like I said, concealability is key for me, and the mass and size of standard 1911s scares me off a bit. Of course, as I write this, one of the salesmen at one of the stores I visited last weekend demonstrated just how concealable a full-size 1911 really is by pulling one out while we were talking. Still, being slight of frame and new to the game, I am aiming for something smaller, both in dimensions and in mass.
Now, I also know that companies make abbreviated-length and -height 1911s, like the Springfield EMP (listed on the spreadsheet, I think). I have been hearing sporadic rumors of difficulties getting them to cycle properly with the shortened barrel, though, and while I do not yet own a 1911, I almost consider their midgetized versions a perversion
Thanks for the heads-up on the KelTecs – I knew looking at the spreadsheet that I was missing something, but could not put my finger on it. That said, I almost definitely will not purchase one – after handling a SU-16CA, and being amazed at how cheap (in a bad way) it felt, I decided to steer clear of that company.
As for calibers, like I said, I was aiming for ammunition commonality, both for my purposes, and for hypothetical SHTF needs. That, and confining myself to three calibers kept the spreadsheet controllable – branching into .380 will take even more time
Unfortunately, I visited all of the stores/ranges in the immediate vicinity, and none of them had the PPS – hot item at the moment, I would guess. I have a standing request to be called if one crops up at one place, though, so I will just have to cross my toes.
Thanks for the advice!
Ack. And in the time it took me to write a coherent response to Chris, two other people showed up. I need to type faster.
Thirdpower: Bah. The evil 9mm-round-that-is-not-really-9mm, right? Each to their own, eh?
Sevesteen: Sorry about the comment difficulties to start with… My site has been quite slow and cantankerous the whole day, and I am not sure what the problem is. I just deleted some awkward code that was causing it problems in the past, so that should have helped. Or not.
Anywise… Why the Airweight, I might be so bold to ask? And, yeah, the “First Edition” PPSs have a significant problem with their slide getting stuck in the back position, permanently (or at least until they are sent into Walther/S&W). The non-First-Edition variants do not seem to have this problem, and since the First Editions are all sold out, I should be good to go.
And, yeah, the engineer part of me knows that the trigger-safety is pretty much useless, but it is still a security blanket, which I guess I still need (hey, I am going from having a fully-manual safety switch to arguably nothing… big step for me).
Kahrs and Kel-Tecs seem to fall under the heading of “you get what you pay for”. This is not necessarily a bad thing, since cheaper self-defense pistols will mean they are more available for more people, but I do want something I can depend on (hence sticking with some of the largest names for my short list).
Chris: One last thought that came to mind just now – are PPKs still being produced, or are they down to used-only?
The J-frame is a product of really good compromises, and a few cases where compromise is unnecessary. Size and weight are near perfect–Small and light enough to be very comfortable, not so light that recoil is nasty. (The P3AT is an example of “so small the recoil is nasty–Despite being only a .380, the minuscule weight makes for an unpleasant sting when it recoils) Small enough that I can carry in a pants pocket, and the shape makes it less likely to print, and less likely to look like a gun if it does. Revolvers don’t need to worry about feeding ammo, so the bullet shape can be optimized purely for optimum penetration and expansion. I can carry more powerful +p (I use the Gold Dot +p 135 grain hollowpoint, designed specifically for short barrel guns) and practice with lower-recoiling standard rounds, or handload even lighter ones, without worrying about the slide cycling.
With my lifestyle, the chance I will actually need my gun is low. The chance that having more than 5 rounds will make a difference is nearly nonexistent. I’ll carry whatever I’ve got to full capacity, but won’t worry about not having enough.
I wouldn’t worry about the XDm as a carry gun, especially if you don’t like .40. The main advantage over the standard XD’s is they widened it a bit for a 16 round magazine, rather than 12. The standard 9mm is already 16 rounds in the full sized, and wouldn’t go up by much if they used the XDm frame. I also doubt you will want to try to concealed carry any full-sized double-stack pistol.
Kahrs other than the CW models are not particularly cheap–Mine was about $100 more than the XD that replaced it–The CW40 wasn’t readily available at the time.
Sevesteen: Thanks for the breakdown on your logic concerning the J-Frame. I may, eventually, branch into the world of revolvers, but given that what I was trained on and am familiar with is semi-automatics, I think I am going to stick with them for the time, especially since equivalent-caliber’d revolvers are, generally, a bit thicker – like I said, a leetle bit paranoid about carrying, still.
). However, having handled a couple Kel-Tecs at the gun show this weekend… yeah, no.
As for the XDm, it would seem as though they changed a few stylistic elements that everyone is hoping will filter down to all of the XD platforms, but I guess that is just a “wait and see” at the moment. And I certainly would not want to carry one, but I will add its information to the spreadsheet once I can dig it up.
And you are right about the Kahrs – their full-metal framed pistols are a bit on the more-expensive side, so I guess I should strike the “you get what you pay for” comment (though, since you pay more for them, arguably you would get more…
Speaking of, while I was not able to dig up a PPS at the show, I was on the way home, and once I am able to clear it past Better Half, I do believe that will be my purchase. It was as small as advertised, and the options of six- or seven-round magazines either make it more concealable, or give you the extra round and a pinkie rest. Need to find a place where I can side-by-side my top three, but I guess I should take what I can get.
I do not know if the PPK/s are still in production or not, I believe they are… My FFL had someone trade in a ppk/s German made model the other day that was unfired in the original box, man it was pretty.
The PPS isn’t all that hard to get, my local dealer has one in his case right now.
As for the size of a 1911 or other full size frame, I carry the Ruger SR9 in a IWB holster and it is just as large as most 4″ 1911s, though it is a bit thinner.
My next purchase will probably be a pocket pistol, I’m thinking probably the Ruger LCP if i can ever get one., though the PPS and the ppk/s are both possibilities.
Yeah, I would guess they are as well, now that I found a brand-spanking new one at the same store where I found the PPS. Speaking of, they are almost impossible to find in my area – the three gun stores in the immediate area failed, the gun show failed, and I was only able to find one at a hybrid golfing and gunning store. How cool is Tennessee? However, now that I have found one, me likey.
Maybe I will graduate to a full-sizer, or at least some variant of a 1911 (which is the gun I should have purchased instead of my Baby Eagle, in retrospect), in the future, but I think I am going to stick with the “small is beautiful” trend at the moment.
LCPs were going for cheap (with a box of ammo thrown in as additional encouragement) at the Bass Pro Shop nearish to me. Of course, I do not know if those are pre-recall or post-recall, but I guess you can call up Ruger when you get home with it. Otherwise, they do seem to be rather nice guns, and definitely all the rave at this point.
I didn’t know you were into firearms…
My father-in-law told me one time about 9 years ago – “i’m leaving my collection to you, so you better get a permit before its to hard to do so…” I was living in MA at the time, so I got a Class A, concealed carry license after going through some crazy hoops (lots of training, joining a gun club, etc.)
When I moved to SoCal (or Southern Kaliforniastan as you so eloquently put it) I was dismayed to realize that I’m not allowed to own most of the guns that I originally got a permit for. Of course, there IS no conceal carry for anyone but law enforcement here, and high-capacity is also a no-no.
I currently have no handguns, but have been looking at some of the Glock 45’s. I like the way they shoot, but 45’s are expensive for your everday range target practice.
I joined a club out here, and for my $400 family membership (yup, H will come with me occasionally) I’ve gotten about 2 sessions out of it. Stupid, given that the range time would have cost me around $50 for how much I’ve used it. Oh well, stupid me.
A good buddy of mine is LAPD, so I get to fire a lot of his stuff when we go, which is fun.
I still don’t know what I’m going to do with my Father-in-laws guns. God willing, it will be a LONG time before its an issue, but I don’t think laws will become more open – just the opposite I’m sure.
Anyway, there is my “stream of conciousness” on that.
Been into firearms for a little while now… everyone needs a hobby, eh?
A shame about the difficulties with your father-in-law’s collection, though… I knew of quite a few people living in that particular area who had storage boxes rented out in Florida, Nevada, and other gun-friendly states. Even more a shame that you had to do so after going through the copious and eye-of-a-needle hoops for a MA license. Of course, compared to the impossibility of Kalifornistan’s licensing system (at least, depending on where you live… up north, I hear it is not too hard), it is better than the alternative.
Considering joining a club here, but you definitely have to go enough times to make it worthwhile.
And, unfortunately, laws never become more open… just their existence alone is a limiting factor, and people only pass more of them to further limit the populace. After all, when was the last time you saw a law that said, “You can do X.”?
talk about dissemination
So my primary reason for developing my concealed carry pistol spreadsheet was to help me determine what hardware to eventually carry when I decided to do so. However, I am not an entirely greedy man, and figured I may as…
I had an H&K P2000SK for concealed carry. Was a little too thick for me, so I picked up a Kahr CW9. I loved it, and really never had too many problems with it. But certain issues with the frame kinda turned me off of it (the polymer only rails started to peel off. These are not used for structural support, and supposedly the gun will work fine without them there at all. But it still bothered me).
I wanted a PPS, and looked high and low for one. While looking for it, I learned about the EMP (no, it’s not on the spreadsheet).
I finally found an EMP, and picked it up that day. Expensive, yes. But it’s the tightest, nicest pistol I’ve ever fired. I have a Pro sized Kimber that I bought at the same time (traded in my H&K’s), and while I’ll carry it with no problem in the same Crossbreed IWB I carry the EMP in, the EMP is just a step above in my opinion.
Like I said, it’s way more expensive than the other choices you have on your list. But with SA’s warranty and customer service, and the quality of this firearm, I’d do it all again in a heartbeat.
In fact, I’m looking to spread out and get an EMP in .40 now.
Good luck with your decision!
Chad
Bits falling off your gun is never a good thing, whether they are integral or not. After all, if they were not, in some way, important, they would not be there.
As for the PPS, my local dealer… er… supplier… er… shop cannot seem to turn one up anywhere. And he has a good six suppliers himself. Perhaps the gun gods are trying to tell me something.
As for the EMP, it does sound damnably nice, I am just not sure if it is what I am looking for… It is tempting with the customization and niceties available for the 1911 frame. Unfortunately, cost is going to be a factor, but that has to be balanced with quality as well… Curses for more choices!
‘Least I can agree that H&Ks are a bit chunky for most carry purposes.